Beyond the Gray is for the high-achiever who has built a life that looks great on paper and is starting to wonder what’s actually driving them. We dig into the conversations most successful people never have out loud — gray area drinking, midlife identity, purpose, relationships, and what it really means to show up for your own life.
No labels. No rock bottom required.
Just honest conversations for people who are ready to stop performing and start living with intention.
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You know, sometimes the most important moments of your life might not feel important at all in the moment. They can often show up as a gentle nudge or a quiet internal whisper, a feeling that you just can’t shake. And if you’re anything like I was 10-plus years ago, it’s those secretive questions that you might be asking yourself. “Why am I drinking more than I used to? Why do I feel so off in the morning? Why do I keep telling myself that I’ll cut back and then I don’t?” Or the dreaded one: “Could I be an alcoholic, and how much is too much?”
If any of those types of questions are inside the back of your mind, this episode is for you. And I really hope that you will stay with me all the way to the end on this one, because it is the episode that I wish somebody would have handed me years ago. It would have answered so many questions. And I know today, it will do the same for you.
Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. I’m your host, Kari Schwear. And if you are just joining me for the very first time, I am really glad that you are here. We talk about all the gray areas that we have in life, particularly with gray area drinking, but it’s not just limited to drinking. We cover everything in this podcast from health to habits to relationships and marriages, your spiritual health, as well as your business. So I hope that you will enjoy today’s episode.
This is one that I really wish somebody would have shared with me 10-plus years ago when I was questioning my own relationship with alcohol. So if alcohol, or any habit that you’re going through right now that you wish to change, that you wish to work on, I know this is going to really help you, because it’s applicable to all habits.
By the time this episode is over, you will be walking away with understanding a psychological framework that is going to show you exactly where you are in your own process right now and why every single stage that you’re in matters. And you’re going to hear about this internal tension that most likely you’ve been feeling, and you’re finally going to have a name for it. And that alone is so great, because just having the awareness and the clarity around that will bring you a sense of peace.
And you’re going to get a handful of real, honest questions for you to sit with this week that might just crack something open for you. And you’re going to leave with the permission that you’ve been waiting for to stop thinking that you should already be further along. So that’s what’s ahead. Let’s get into today’s episode.
So real change almost never begins with this dramatic decision or rock bottom. And I know that’s not what the highlight reels always look like. Although we love the stories of a person who has hit rock bottom and woke up one day and completely transformed their life. We love those, and they are real, and they’re powerful. But for most people, that’s not how it happens. For some, they get to go around that same mountain over and over again, mistake after mistake, until they finally get it right. But for most people, it starts with something so small that it barely registers, and it’s often missed.
And that’s what I want to share with you today. What is it? I call it a seed. It’s that small whisper, a nudge, that tiny but all-knowing gut instinct, or gut pull, or push, however you want to phrase it. Or maybe it’s a word from a friend or a family member.
For me, I had more than just one seed planted for me. It started years before I quit drinking with a friend named Alicia. She noticed that I was having more than just one or two glasses of wine during the week, and she brought it to my attention. Not in a judgmental way, just, “Hey, is there a reason why you’re having a glass of wine when you get home from work? I’m just, you know, checking in on you.” And I thought that was really nice. And she said, “Just be careful. Just be aware of how much you’re drinking.”
Okay, great. Well, at the time, honestly, I thought, “What is she making such a big deal about?” Well, she had a history of people in her family that were alcoholic. So she was keeping an eye on me. She was genuinely concerned. So I took her inquisitive questions to me and I filed it in the back of my mind. That was seed number one.
The second seed came when I was getting my eyelashes done. And this was a couple years before I quit drinking. And the technician, who has turned out to be a very good friend of mine, Kirby. Kirby was my second seed. And I would come in on a Saturday morning, hungover, to get my eyelashes filled. And she started asking me questions. “You know, Kari, this is the second or third time in a row that I’ve seen you that you have mentioned that you drank a little bit more than you wanted to last night. Are you doing okay?”
I said, “Yes.” And as I was walking out, I’ll never forget it. She looked me straight in the eye and she said, “You know, I hope you’re okay that I said something to you, but I love you, girl. And I don’t want you to come to a place where you can no longer enjoy wine because I know you love it so much. So I just want you to know, be careful.” Well, that was seed number two.
Seed number three came from my husband, which was more like seed number three, four, five, and six, because he had started noticing how much more I was drinking when we did go out. And when I would get home, he would ask me the next day, “How do you feel about yourself this morning?” And they were more seeds.
Now at the time, I’m thinking it’s more like a nag, if I’m being honest. But what I realized was that each one of these comments from my friends and now my husband were seeds that were being planted and watered. And what was watering them was my own internal gut instinct, which by the way, I call the Holy Spirit. You can call it whatever language works for you, but for me, that’s the language that I choose to use. And it was this internal whisper.
Well, maybe your seed moment looks different. Maybe someone that you love has already said something to you and you brushed it off in the moment, but then you couldn’t stop thinking about it. Maybe you went to the doctor and in passing the doctor said something to you, and yet it followed you home. And again, you couldn’t stop thinking about it.
Or maybe you listened to a podcast, maybe even this one, and something landed in a way that you didn’t expect. Or maybe you just woke up one random morning with a thought that felt both completely obvious and brand new at the same time. That’s how this works. That is exactly how it works.
It’s that internal dialogue that you’re having of “This is something that isn’t working for me anymore,” and you can’t get away from it very easily. The awareness is there. That seed gets cultivated. And once it’s there, you can’t unsee it. You start noticing how alcohol is showing up in your whole week, or whatever habit that you are working on. Or you’re thinking about how you feel the next morning, or this mental real estate that it’s taking up inside your head, like we talked about in the moderation episode.
You know, your awareness wakes up to all that, and that awareness is not a burden. It is information. It’s your life trying to get your attention. And that’s what I hope that I’m providing for you today too.
So like I mentioned before, this awareness, you can call it whatever you want. It could feel like intuition. It could be your gut is speaking to you. But if you ignore it for a long time, eventually it’s going to catch up to you. So I hope that that nudge that you are feeling, that you’re taking it seriously. Because you know what? The truth always has a way of entering our lives as a whisper long before it becomes a decision that you’re willing to work on.
And the more we try to rationalize it away, the louder it eventually gets inside of our head, that you can’t ignore it. And I think most of us already know that. And you know what? When you’re in a gray area, it is a choice to be there. And it’s so much better to make decisions on your future and what you want for yourself while you still have a choice. Because once you get past that gray area into the darker shades of gray, guess what? It no longer becomes an easy choice. It becomes forced. And I don’t want you to be in that position.
So if something is whispering to you right now, please don’t dismiss it. Stay with it, because it’s trying to show you something. All right?
I want to share something with you that I find genuinely fascinating and really deeply reassuring. And this is what I wish I would have known years ago. It’s called the Transtheoretical Model of Change. And it was developed by psychologists James Prochaska and Carlo DiClemente. And what it essentially tells us is this: that change doesn’t happen in one single moment. It unfolds in stages, and every one of those stages needs to happen. It’s legitimate and it’s necessary.
So I’m going to walk through each stage with you. And as I do, I want you to notice where you are right now. Not where you think you should be, but where you identify in being right at this moment, okay?
The first stage is called pre-contemplation. And this is where someone isn’t even considering any change yet. They might say things like, “I don’t really have a problem,” or “Everyone drinks like this. What’s the big deal?” And there’s no seed yet. Nothing’s been said to them. They’re not even thinking about it. Most likely you’re not in that stage, right?
The second stage is contemplation. And this is the one where you might be, or you might be in the next one we’re going to talk about. But contemplation is where you start to feel a little off. You’re not committed to doing anything different yet, but the questions keep showing up. Questions like, “Maybe I should cut back,” or “How much is too much?” like I alluded to in the beginning of this episode. That’s where the awareness starts to come alive for you. And it matters so much more than people give it credit for. So if you’re in that stage, okay, great. That’s a good place to be.
So now we can move on to the third stage, which is preparation. And this is where you start gathering information about making a change. Maybe you’re listening to a podcast like this one. Maybe you’re reading a book about it. You start asking questions. “What would change actually look like for me? How would I even begin?” This is where the curiosity starts the process into intention. And guess where intention leads to? The next stage.
Action. And this is the stage where most people assume change starts. It’s the visible stuff, the actual behavioral shifting that we can see. But by the time someone reaches action, so much important work has already happened beneath the surface. They have decided. Maybe you decide. This is the action stage where you do decide. You decide that who you currently are is no longer working for you. And then you put one step in front of the other and you start implementing those small changes that lead to big changes.
And this is maybe where you partner with somebody to walk this path with you, like many of my clients have done. Or maybe you try a 12-step program if that resonates with you. You toss out all the alcohol in your home. You start preparing, planning, and executing and reporting on how you feel every day, like we discussed in episode six on how to socialize without alcohol. Again, you decide. You have the desire. You declare a different version of yourself, and you start taking action.
And then finally, we get into the maintenance stage. And the maintenance stage is your new normal. It’s the new version of your life. It’s just your life. It’s what you do day in and day out, intention by intention, proactive and with purpose. Technically, I’m still in the maintenance stage, 10-plus years, or almost 10 years now. Every day is intention by intention. Now, I don’t wake up thinking about alcohol anymore, not even a little bit. But in the beginning, it was something that I had to be very intentional about. “Today, I’m choosing to be alcohol-free. Tomorrow, I’m choosing to be alcohol-free.” One foot in front of the other. That’s the maintenance stage.
So here’s what I really want you to hear out of knowing the Transtheoretical Model. Many people judge themselves because they think they should be farther along, or they should be in the action stage. And then they feel weak because they’re still in contemplation. They feel like they’re falling behind because they haven’t done anything yet.
But that’s not true. Because contemplation and preparation, they’re not failure stages. They’re where that seed is growing and cultivating. You just need a little bit more water before you get to that action stage, and that is okay. Because everything important is happening underground before it shows on the surface.
So you’re not behind if you’re in that stage. You’re in the process that you’re in. And you know what? It’s working. You want to know why I know this? Because you’re here and you’re listening to this. And that makes me really happy that you are.
You know, and this is also where my Decide Method comes in. Because once someone reaches that genuine moment of “I want something different for myself,” that’s when this process becomes really powerful in that action stage. And it starts with the first letter D. The Decide Method is an acronym. So the first letter D is having the desire to change. There’s not pressure from anyone else. Those are the seeds that have been planted.
When you decide to make the change, it’s your decision. It’s an internal, all-knowing that this is what you want for yourself. Not through shame, not through a deadline. Desire that comes from you. From that seed that’s been growing. From the awareness that’s been building over time. From the part of you that is finally done looking the other way and pretending that voice doesn’t exist. You’re finally awake and you’re listening to it.
And I remember when my desire finally became louder than the resistance that I was having, the ignoring that I was doing. It was more like I woke up one morning and realized that, you know what, I’m just done. I’m just done. And I had my own enough moment in July of 2016, but it took me another 19 days before I decided that was it.
So I moved pretty quickly from the contemplation stage into preparation in that 19 days. And then I finally made that decision to move into the action stage. And I was really, really scared of what that was going to look like. That shift, though, that happened for me, was the desire. Because the desire became more real for me. And it couldn’t be manufactured from anybody or from the outside. It had to come within. And it has to come within for you.
Because you know what? Once you do have that desire to make a change and move into that action stage, that desire is the starting point for everything else that is about to come your way. And it’s a really beautiful thing.
There’s one more thing I want to name before we get into the practical things, and it is what psychologists call cognitive dissonance. Now, the definition of cognitive dissonance is two or more incongruent thoughts that are competing with each other inside your mind. One way that I like to look at cognitive dissonance is having the angel on one shoulder and the devil on the other. When you know that your values and what you want to do really are not lining up.
So you have this action that you want to drink, but your value system is saying, “No, you probably shouldn’t.” And they’re fighting with each other. And this is a constant battle inside of your head. That’s what cognitive dissonance is.
It could show up like you care deeply about your health, but yet you’re drinking more than feels right. Or you value being with your family, yet because you decided to make some poor decisions the night before, now you’re not quite ready to spend the day with your family on Saturday morning. Or you want to feel really clear and sharp and present, but alcohol just makes that harder. And it’s this gap between who you know you want to be and how you’re actually living.
That’s cognitive dissonance. And it is so deeply uncomfortable. I know, because I lived it way longer than I’d like to admit. But here’s the reframe that I really want you to think about today and offer to you. That discomfort that you are feeling with cognitive dissonance is not a sign that something is wrong with you. It’s actually a sign that your values are working.
It’s the friction between who you are right now and who you are becoming. And that friction, as much as it hurts or is not comfortable, is often the very thing that finally moves people towards that change. So try not to numb it. Try not to let it tell you anything that you know is not exactly true. Pay attention when you feel that internal battle that’s happening inside your mind.
All right, I want to give you something real and practical to take away from today. It’s not a plan. You don’t need a plan yet, especially if you’re not in that action stage yet. You just need some questions that are worth sitting with this week.
Here’s your first question. What was the very first seed planted for you? Because I know you’ve had at least one. Was it a moment or a conversation? Who was it with? Is it something you noticed about yourself that you’ve been avoiding? Think again, this is that internal dialogue that you’re having, that all-knowing voice inside. What has it been saying to you?
Second question. What have you started noticing about your drinking, or whatever gray area it is that you’re working on, that you didn’t let yourself notice before? That now you’re starting to go, “Mm-hmm, I see what’s happening, and I don’t like it.” And sometimes the hardest person to admit all this to is yourself. So think about that. When was the first time that you noticed it?
Third question. If nothing changes, if a year from now goes by and everything looks exactly the same, how would you honestly feel about it? I really want you to sit with that one. If nothing changes, guess what? Nothing changes. How would you feel about it? What does next year look like? Do you think you can wait that long without making a change?
And the fourth. What might life look like if you gave yourself permission to explore something different? To step into that version of yourself who is calling you forward via that tiny little whisper inside.
I don’t want you to rush through any of these questions. If you can write them down, do it. Let them sit with you for a while. Because sometimes the most powerful thing that we can do is to stay honest with ourselves long enough to hear our own answer. And I know it’s not comfortable, but it’s worth it.
Let me share too that one of the most common things I hear from people at this stage, and I said this to myself more times than I can count, is some version of “I’m just not ready yet.” And here’s what I want to say back to that, with every ounce of warmth I have: you don’t need to be. You truly don’t.
Change doesn’t start with some perfect plan. It starts with that moment of honesty. It starts with the willingness to stop talking yourself out of what you already know is true. That’s where the starting line is. That’s it. You don’t have to know what the finish line looks like yet. You just have to be honest enough to admit that something is pulling you. That’s more than enough to begin. I promise you it is.
If the seed has been planted in your life around alcohol or anything else that’s been pulling you, I want to encourage you to please pay attention to it. Don’t dismiss it. Those seeds are communication for you. If you rationalize it away, it’s not going to get the water and the cultivating it needs. Something inside you is trying to show you something real, and that something is not a character flaw. It is not weakness. It is the beginning of true awareness. And awareness is always, always where transformation starts.
And like I said earlier, I wish somebody had shared this with me when I was in the middle of my gray areas, because I spent so much time thinking that I should be farther along, thinking something was wrong with me for not having it figured out. And what I know now is I was exactly where I needed to be. I needed to go through those stages the way that I did. And I know that is true for you as well. My seed was growing, and your seed is now growing too.
If this episode resonated with you, consider sharing it with somebody else that might be sitting with these same questions. Sometimes the most loving thing we can do for someone is to hand them something that says, “I see you. And I know there’s a way through this as well.” Because you know what? There truly is life beyond the gray. And it starts with one honest moment of paying attention to the whisper before it ever becomes a shout. I’ll see you in the next episode.
Kari: If you weren’t married to your spouse and you met them today, exactly as they are right now, would you want to date them? Not the person that you married. Not the highlight reel version. The real person that they are today. If that question hit you right in the gut, that doesn’t mean that your marriage is over. It means something important is trying to get your attention. So today, Rob and I are going to be talking about what most couples feel at some point but almost nobody talks about out loud.
Kari: Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. If this is your first time here, we’re really glad that you are here. We talk about all gray areas, particularly gray area drinking, gray area relationships, gray areas with our faith and our business and with our health. So today, my husband Rob is back. Hi, Rob.
Rob: Hey.
Kari: Thanks for being here. And today, this conversation might make a few people uncomfortable. And I’m going to apologize ahead of time, but I know it’s going to be one of those episodes that’s really going to help you if you find yourself in this situation.
By the end of this episode, I really want you to understand why long-term marriages can truly start drifting apart over a period of time. Why that happens. Why we stop seeing each other and our spouses very clearly. How our brain literally filters out what we notice. We’re going to do a little exercise with that. And practical ways to begin reconnecting beginning this week.
And I also want to share that when a marriage does start to feel off, this is when people will start reaching for things to take that edge off. Now, if you’ve been in my circle for a while, you’ve been listening to the podcast, you know that gray area drinking is one of those gray areas. So we see this a lot. Instead of dealing with some of the harder conversations, we may reach for a drink. We may end up scrolling on our phone. We use things like distractions from our phone, or catching our attention looking elsewhere, or at work. Or we might even be flirting, what we think is innocently, with the opposite sex, maybe at the gym or at the bank or at the grocery store.
These are all things that we’re doing to distract ourselves from what’s really happening inside of our marriage. And this doesn’t mean that we’re bad people or that something is wrong with us or our marriage is failing. It’s because there’s been a disconnection that has happened and it can feel really uncomfortable.
Rob: It sure can. Yeah.
Kari: So Rob, what do you think about this for yourself? Have you noticed anything with your friends or even with you, with us?
Rob: I think it’s something everybody goes through.
Kari: Yeah.
Rob: I don’t feel it was prevalent in our relationship. It wasn’t face forward. But there was a diminishment of self, of who we were, because we were Mom or Dad, friends, or my work, your work. I mean, it was just that way for a while. It wasn’t Kari and Rob like we used to be. So to an extent, yes.
Kari: Yeah. So you can absolutely start to drift apart over a period of time. And that is very normal. So guess what? We’re not the same people that we were when we first got married.
Rob: Not the same people.
Kari: Yeah, we’re not the same people. And you know what? It’s completely normal because we’re expected to grow. We’re expected to change, right? And things happen. Our careers change. When I think about our careers back in the day, you know, 30, 40 years ago, we’re totally not in that same space anymore. And our stress levels have changed over the years. We’re finally at a place now where there’s not as much stress anymore. We don’t have the kids to worry about. We’re empty nesters. Perhaps you’re an empty nester as well.
Rob: And we’ve also learned and grown to manage it better.
Kari: Yes.
Rob: Right? I personally, me, my journey, I’ve learned to manage it much better.
Kari: Yes. So stress still exists. I don’t want to not emphasize that. Stress is still there. But how you decide to manage it and walk through it is what can support these changes in relationships. And I think what happens naturally, because our careers do change and our stress levels change and the kids, that whole dynamic changes and our roles change, like Rob brought up roles, whatever that is, our priorities evolve. And what happens is we can easily start drifting apart. And that can happen very slowly. It’s not usually a dramatic way. It could be through missed conversations that need to be happening.
Rob: To make sure you hit here is it’s drift. Float. It’s nonchalant. It sneaks up on you. It doesn’t just impact you. And before you know it, you’re standing across the room saying, “Who is that?” Right? That’s very important to realize, because you don’t see it coming because you’re so caught up in the minutia of life.
Kari: Yes, that is absolutely… I can’t remember who said it. Was it Ferris Bueller’s Day Off?
Rob: “You know, every once in a while, if you don’t sit down and just take it all in, you’re going to miss it.” Something like that, right? I don’t know it word for word, but that was the crux of it. And so true with everything you do.
Kari: Yeah. You know, I have a lot of people on LinkedIn messaging me, and it’s so awesome, by the way. If you are one of those people that have messaged me over the years and shared with me so openly, I thank you for trusting me with that information. And what I’m seeing a lot is, “You know, Kari, I’ve been married for a long time. I love my spouse, but we’re just not on the same page. The intimacy isn’t there anymore. She does her thing, I do my thing,” or “He does his thing and I do my thing.”
It is very much universal across the board that this spread starts to happen. And you then even have your own friends eventually, right? That can happen. You have your own social life. And this is one of those things where it starts to become a white flag of, “Hey, hey, something is going on.” And it’s those small missed conversations that could be happening that aren’t being had. And it’s also choosing phones over remaining present with them over dinner time.
Rob: It’s the worst thing.
Kari: Yeah. Or assuming that you already know your partner that well. But you know what, because you have changed, do you still really know your partner? Because that’s really the crux of this.
And if you listened to episode four, when Rob first joined me, we talked about something called the Intellect Scan that we did together. And that was a way for us to see each other in ways we had no idea about. And that’s something that now I offer with my clients when we do couples and private one-on-one clients. But that was very, very helpful to actually see your partner in a way that you haven’t seen in a very long time.
Rob: Again, back to that part of drifting. It just happens. It’s not a punch in the face. It’s not like, “Who is that?” It’s over time. And when you realize it, you have to be curious about it and say, “Hmm, how do I relearn that? How do I become the person again that she married?” Or, “I’m not that person anymore, but how do I get her to fall in love with me again?” Right? It’s just those types of things that help a relationship, because there are ways to do it and it becomes fun again if you allow it to be. If you really want to work at it, it can become fun. But you have to be honest about what you’re thinking. And in the previous episode we talked about curiosity, and you have to be very, very curious about what’s going on in your own life. Because if you’re not, you know, it’s just going to pass you by.
Kari: Yeah. And let’s be honest, it’s not easy to have a conversation where it doesn’t feel comfortable. I mean, we avoid the discomfort as humans. We try to run away from it. But if we’re not willing to sit down and ask some of these tougher questions, which we’re going to give you some questions in a little bit here to start pondering about, it can actually feel even a little dangerous at times and almost forceful in a sense when you’re trying to ask that person what is really going on.
And again, we have these roles that we end up falling into. Co-parent, he takes the trash out. This is for real, by the way.
Rob: Well, provider, right?
Kari: Yeah, provider. Yeah, that’s a really good one.
Rob: Right. But even in the house. I provide, that’s what I do. You cook and you clean. And that whole BS, right? Now, that’s not our relationship like she was saying.
Kari: Totally. Totally.
Rob: Why would I see her struggling to handle a heavy bag like that? I’m going to do that. But it’s like, what’s wonderful about my wife, I come home, she makes me a beautiful dinner.
Kari: And then he cleans up the dishes.
Rob: So we found a rhythm. But again, there’s some minutia about just what you do or an expectation of how you could fall into that trap about the role. How cool would it be if, you know, Kari was out and I had dinner ready? It’s not going to be a good dinner. It’s probably going to be burgers on the grill because that’s about all I can handle. But still, would it surprise her? I’m sure it would shock her. That’s the type of thing you have to do to break out of the norm, to get interesting again.
Kari: Right. I want to have you do a little exercise with me here, because I think this is really important. When we start focusing on the things about our spouse that get on our last living nerve, we will see more of it. And I want to give you an example of that.
If you notice that your spouse has gained weight and it’s bothering you, or the way that they chew their food, and every time you sit down at dinner and they’re eating their food, all you’re focusing on is how they’re chewing that food. Or you notice that they gained weight, so every time you see them, you’re like, “Oh my gosh, if they would only lose that couple pounds, they’d look so much better.” There’s that judgment thing that we talked about earlier in episode four.
The more we focus on those negatives, the more we see them. So when we are totally fixated on finding what we’re looking for to prove to ourselves that we’re right, we’re going to get more of it. It’s like if you buy a new Toyota 4Runner, and you know, it’s red, and now all of a sudden you see more red 4Runners out on the road. You’re like, why? It’s because your brain is paying attention to it. That is the reticular activating system in our brain. It becomes a filter on what we focus on. So the more you focus on your spouse’s faults, what you believe to be faults, the more you’re going to see of them.
But there’s a flip side to that. What do you think the flip side is, Rob? If we’re focusing on the negative things, what can we then start to do?
Rob: Focus on the positive.
Kari: Yeah, absolutely. Focus on the positive. And I know when we were going through our troubles, when I started seeing Rob for who he truly was, oh my gosh, that’s all I could see is this amazing, beautiful soul of a human being that somehow I got lost. He got lost in my eyesight there for a while during that time frame. And when I started focusing back on all the positives that this man is at the core, oh my gosh, like, I’m falling on my knees like, how lucky am I?
So it does work when we start to really focus on that. And again, if your brain is constantly scanning for what is wrong, then no wonder you’re reaching for a drink. No wonder you’re doing things that you don’t want to be doing, because it’s very natural to do that.
But there’s a way that we can start bridging that gap and coming back together again. And one of the things is to simply ask your spouse, “What made you fall in love with me?” And when you think about all the way in the beginning, so Rob, I’ll ask you. What made you fall in love with me way back when? In 1987 when we met.
Rob: At a concert. I don’t know if I should answer that question.
Kari: You can.
Rob: Well, first of all, we were young. We’ll start with that. You’re beautiful. You’re a beautiful woman. You loved the music that I loved, and I’m a very big music… I love music. I love it. I just love it. It’s like the elixir of the soul to me, music. And you loved it. I’m like, “Wow, okay, that’s cool.” She loved cars. She was in the car. She drove a fast car. Okay. Check another box, right? But she was fun. Kari was just a fun girl who checked all the boxes.
And honestly, you know, they say love at first sight. I knew. I knew when I first saw her I was going to spend the rest of my life with her. That’s the God’s honest truth. We’ve had the conversation, the whole nine yards. But again, there were a lot of things that made me, you know, with that new love thing. Let’s call that new love, right? Because it’s the butterflies, you know, it’s new. But you checked all the boxes. You were definitely the one, you know?
Kari: You prove that.
Rob: Right.
Kari: But things change over the years.
Rob: Sure they do.
Kari: Yeah. Now I like different music than what he likes. I mean, we still like kind of the same, but my music tastes have changed over the years. And so he might be like, “Oh, do we have to listen to that?” And I’m like, “Yeah, we do actually. It’s my car. We’re going to listen to it.” But we have learned to appreciate the differences that we have. So again, it’s really about seeing your spouse in ways that maybe you have forgotten to see them, and finding the common ground.
So one thing that you can begin to do is write down what made you fall in love with your spouse years ago. And not what they do, okay? This is really, really important. Because I had a client once that told me that one of the main reasons why he was staying with his spouse was because she checked all the boxes in terms of taking care of the house, cleaning, taking care of the kids. But there was no true connection there at all. She was just a really good housewife.
So that’s what she was doing. It wasn’t who she was or who she is. So when you think about what made you fall in love with your spouse, not what they do, but who they are. And are those qualities still there? Are they still there? Because if you’re being honest, maybe yes. And I really want to help you get there.
One thing that really helped Rob and I when we were going through our episode a couple years ago, and we still do this, is a card game called The And. The And is such an amazing game. There’s tons of decks that are available out there. The one that I’m holding up to the screen, if you’re watching this on YouTube or on Spotify, you can get an idea what this looks like. This is the family edition that I’m holding up right now, and we’ve done this with our grown children, which has been really lovely to do with them. But the black deck is for couples, long-term couples. And we have done this so many times.
And again, when we were in a really, really hard place in our marriage, we were doing this. So I couldn’t find the actual deck, but I did manage to find some loose cards because we use them so often. So I’m just going to randomly pick one. And Rob, I’m going to read this to you and then you can answer it.
So this particular card I just chose says, “What do you miss most about us?” So did you hear that question?
Rob: What do you miss most about us? So if you’re in that place, what a great fire starter, right? And honestly, for me, I can go back to when, let’s go, we were talking about when you first met that person. What do I miss most about us when we first met? Let’s go to that context, because there’s so many different places you can go with that question. We used to just have a lot of fun going to concerts and just being together and just spending time together. And that’s truly what I miss, because we don’t do that anymore, right? We do. We just went to see Heart at the Altria Center in Richmond.
Kari: But still, it was, that was a blast.
Rob: It was different. It was different, right? Because it was on a weeknight and we’re out all night. Yeah, neither one of us drank at that time. We were young but we didn’t drink. But we just enjoyed each other’s company, and it was just, we couldn’t wait to see each other again. And music was the way that we connected. So we used to go to any concert, anywhere we could get tickets. Tickets were 10 bucks and we’d go see a show, and it was just fun.
Kari: I forgot to mention one thing, though, before you start the game, is that you want to connect with your spouse by looking them in the eye and getting really connected. You’re not saying anything. You’re just looking at them. And then you would just randomly, we take five cards each. So I would give him five cards, I would take five cards, and then you would just flip it over. And then here’s a question: “What’s the benefit of us staying together?” Oh my gosh, that’s a good one. “What’s the benefit of us staying together?” And a question like this is something for you to really sit with and truly answer the question. What is the benefit of you staying together?
And if I’m being honest, a lot of you listening may be thinking, “Well, it’s easier to stay together than it is to get divorced.” But that’s not enough reason to stay together. I really want you to hear that, because my goal for you for this episode is for you to truly fall back in love with your spouse to a point that you really do like them and you do want to date them.
So this is just one way that you can begin doing this with this card game, and I highly recommend it. Like I said, we have the family edition, great to play with your adult children as well. So something for you to think about. They’re very thoughtful questions. They’re structured conversations, and it will really slow you down so you can start to think about how you look at your spouse again.
You know, there’s a quote that I heard the other day and I want to read it to you: “Your spouse isn’t a finished book. They are chapters that you haven’t read yet.” And when you think about that, we are always growing into new chapters. We’re growing into new versions of ourselves. When the connection starts to increase with your spouse, guess what decreases? Your need to numb.
And that is truly something that I see as well. When I’m able to work with a one-on-one client and start loosening the need to reach for alcohol, their connection with their spouse naturally gets better. And it’s because they don’t have to numb anymore. They can actually be present, which is what their spouse is actually looking for. Which is something else to be paying attention to.
I don’t know if you listen to the Diary of a CEO with Steven Bartlett, one of my favorite podcasts, by the way. He had a guy on named Jefferson Fisher, and he did something called the Invisible String Test. And I wanted to share it with you because I think this is really important. Again, if you’re watching this, you can watch us do this. And if you’re not watching, I will describe it to you.
So Rob and I each have a string, it’s actually a ribbon, and we’re holding it tightly. And if I was having a conversation directly with him and we’re solely focused on each other, there’s this deep connection between us. But if I was to pick up my phone, I’m going to pretend this is my phone, if I pick up my phone, we’re in conversation and I pick up my phone and I start looking at it, this connection with the string starts to loosen. And then he feels less than.
So when you check your phone, when you’re not paying attention to your spouse, it’s almost like this invisible string starts to go loose. It signals to your partner that they’re not important.
Rob: Anyone. Yeah, for anyone. Anyone. You know, business partner, anyone that you’re dealing with. Your kids.
Kari: So putting the phone away completely is recommended. Not just putting your phone upside down on the table. And also notice the reaction when you’re having a conversation and your spouse picks up the phone, or you pick up your phone. How disrespectful it feels to the other person. So presence is really key here, because true connection requires for you to be 100% present for them and engaged.
Rob: Absolutely.
Kari: So I think that is one thing that can really, really help you. All right, so let’s talk about some practical ways that you can start to move forward with your spouse. And Rob, I’d love for you to share what you think, because we’ve gone through this and talked about it.
Rob: Just go on a date night. Yeah, that’s simple. I mean, schedule a date night. Once a week, once a month, bi-weekly. But a date night. Go bowling. Go to see a movie. Hiking with your wife. Yeah, but do something that you don’t normally do. Like, going out to dinner doesn’t count, because you always go out to dinner, right? It could be a really nice restaurant or something. But again, we kind of do that. So do something that that person, your spouse, loves to do. Kari likes to hike. I would not say, “Hey, honey, come on, we’re going to go golfing.” No, that’s not what to do, right? It’s you’ve got to pick something that she wants to do. “Would you like to go shopping today?” Be curious. Ask.
Kari: “Hey, I really want us to spend time together. What do you want to do?” Or you come up with something that both of you maybe have never done together, or you want to explore. You know, maybe it’s a cooking class. Maybe it’s a dance lesson. Maybe it’s driving out to a farm where there’s farm animals and you can do yoga together with little… They call those little sheep or whatever, the bouncing, not the sheep. What am I trying to say? I don’t know.
Rob: Baby goats.
Kari: The fainting goats.
Rob: The fainting goats. We’ve got yoga with fainting goats now.
Kari: I’m not joking. We should do that.
Rob: Yeah, I don’t know about that. I can’t do yoga. So…
Kari: Oh my gosh. But anyway, the biggest takeaway here is to get curious about where you are. And some questions that you can ask your spouse is, “What are you most proud of right now?” When you ask your spouse that, it opens up a conversation that maybe you don’t know about, what they’re most proud of right now. That could be a whole conversation in itself.
And maybe, what has been hard lately for them? What are they going through?
Rob: Yeah.
Kari: I like this question so much: “What would you do if you couldn’t fail?” Because we’ve had that conversation too. When we’re in a situation of thinking about what’s next for both of us, what would you do if you knew for sure you couldn’t fail? And maybe your partner needs just the encouragement from you. And this is an open invitation for you to be able to provide that for them.
Rob: Well, as a spouse, I think that’s one of your superpowers, is to be the person that supports your spouse to make sure they can get done their dreams and what they want to do. Because if they don’t support it, that’s sort of like, man, that’s kind of damning, right? Right, wrong, or indifferent. Yeah. Sometimes you have to fail forward. And you may know in the back of your head, “I know this is not going to work. I know this is not right. I know this is not going to be for my spouse.” However, if that drive and passion is there, you have to support it. You have to.
Kari: Absolutely.
Rob: You could give your point of view, but you’re better off if you give the support and the unwavering support to do it and move it forward.
Kari: Yeah. That’s a win, I think.
So for you this week, what I would love for you to consider doing is writing down a list of qualities that you admire about your spouse. Things that you appreciate deeply about your spouse. And things that you would miss about your spouse if you decided you wanted to walk away. I really want you to sit with that. And then read it aloud if you can. And you know what? Share it. If you feel comfortable having that conversation with your spouse, which I truly hope that you are.
You don’t know what she or he is thinking until you actually start that conversation. And think about having some phone-free hours. Maybe going for a walk together. Dinner. Maybe it’s just getting coffee in the middle of the work day. Just reconnecting that way. It doesn’t have to be this grandiose thing. It could be something like, “Hey, can you meet me for a cup of coffee? I just want to spend some time with you today.” Those things mean a lot. They may seem very small to you, but they can actually be really big.
And then revisit the origin story. Revisit why you fell in love with the person in the first place. Why did you? Watch old videos. Oh my gosh, that’s a good one. That kind of stuff just really brings it back. And not that you want to go back to your old version, because you don’t. Right. But maybe you need to remember why you fell in love with them in the first place. And imagine what your life would look like if they weren’t in your world anymore. And ask them what they think. And then listen.
Kari: I know, I’ll tell you right now, Rob, if I met you today, I would 100% want to date you. For sure.
Rob: Hey, you’re holding up pretty well, you know, just saying.
Kari: Anyway, that’s my line. He does say that. “You’re holding up pretty well, Kari.” I’m like, “Great.” But he is too. So, you know, that’s the thing. We’re both still very attracted to each other, but we do work at that. So again, if you haven’t heard episode four, you can go back and listen to that one.
But there’s one thing that I can encourage you to do. Tonight, or today at some point, tell your spouse one thing that you admire about them.
And if you want to take this work even deeper, if you’re like, “You know what, I really would love to get to know my spouse in current, today form, in a way that I know is going to help our marriage, without going to counseling or without therapy or any of that stuff,” I want to share with you the His/Hers/Ours series that I offer with my clients. You can find more on the website, GrayTonic.com, on the Work With Me page. You’ll see the His, Hers, and Ours series on there. Because I promise you, if you go through this scan work, just a couple calls, and walk this through together, it will open up your eyes in ways that you never could have imagined.
Sometimes the path out of the gray leads you right back to that person that has been beside you this whole time. And it’s not always easy to see. I know that to be true. So thank you so much, Rob, for being with me and with the listeners today. It’s always great to have you.
We look forward to seeing you back next week. I’m going to be talking about something called planting the seed, and how important it is to have that little internal voice inside you become the catalyst of all change that you’d like to see in your life. I hope you’ll join us then. Have a great day and week!
Why Successful People Still Feel Empty: Faith, Purpose, and Reconnecting With God
You know, I’ve come to realize a lot of people drink not because they love alcohol, but because they’re exhausted. And I mean really exhausted. Not just tired from a long week. I mean carrying-everything-alone exhausted. The business, the pressure, the marriage, the expectations that seem to multiply the more successful you become. And without even realizing it, we start telling ourselves that this is just how it is. That we’re supposed to handle it. So when the pressure builds, we do what makes sense in the moment. A drink at the end of the day. It’s a distraction. It’s something to take the edge off.
And honestly, I get it. Because life does get heavy. But here’s the question I keep coming back to. What if stress isn’t actually the real issue? What if the deeper thing going on is this: we were never meant to carry all of this by ourselves in the first place. That’s what I want to talk about today. Hang in there, this is going to be an episode you don’t want to miss.
Hi, welcome back to Beyond the Gray. I’m Kari, and I’m so glad you’re here for this one, because today’s episode is a little different from what we’ve been doing. Today we’re talking about something that lives underneath a lot of the gray areas that we’ve already explored together. We’re going to be talking about faith.
And before you check out on me, I want to be really clear upfront. This is not a religious conversation. As a matter of fact, I don’t even like the word religion. I’m not here to push doctrine on you or tell you what to believe. What I am here to do is talk about something I think is deeply, profoundly human, and that’s connection.
You know, after working with people for years and really sitting with them in their stuff, one thing has become impossible to ignore. When people feel lost or stuck or just restless, even when their lives look pretty good from the outside, there’s almost always a deeper disconnect happening, and it tends to show up in the same place every time.
I work with clients around what I call the Core Four. Four areas of life that shape everything. Our body, our being, our balance, and our business. Our body is your physical health. Balance is your relationships. Business is your work and your purpose and your contribution to the world. But the one thing that holds everything together, that’s being. It’s your internal world. Your sense of who you are. Your connection to your creator. And that’s what we’re going to dig into today.
By the time we’re done, I want you to understand why so many successful people still walk around feeling unsettled. I want you to see how some of the hardest seasons of life might actually be doing something in you, not to you. And I want you to maybe see faith not as religion, not as a set of rules, not as something that your parents told you you had to believe in, but as an invitation to stop carrying everything alone.
So if this isn’t your usual territory, I’m just asking you to hang in there with me and stay with me to the end, because I believe that something is going to land differently for you than you may expect.
A former client recently sent me a video about something called the Pike Experiment, and I haven’t been able to stop thinking about it since. This is so relatable to our own lives. So if you haven’t heard it, let me tell you what it is.
Scientists placed a large pike fish in a tank, and on the other side of that tank were small fish, the exact kind that the pike would normally eat. But between them, the scientists put a clear piece of glass. So every time the pike went after those smaller fish, it would slam itself into the glass again and again and again. And that fish became bloody and it was in pain. And eventually it figured out, “I can’t get to the fish.” So it stopped trying.
And here’s where it gets really interesting. The scientists later removed that glass completely. The barrier was gone. But the pike fish never attacked those small fish again. It just swam around them like they weren’t even food anymore. Because even though the wall had disappeared, the belief that it was still there hadn’t.
And I think about that a lot when it comes to faith. Because so many people hit a glass wall somewhere in their story, whether it’s a bad experience, a deep disappointment, a prayer that felt like it went unanswered, or church hurt from someone, or they just stopped reaching altogether. And even years later, when that barrier is long gone, the belief that it’s still there keeps them from reconnecting to something that could genuinely change things.
There’s another piece to this though, and it starts when we’re about two years old. Every parent knows this moment, and if you’re a parent, I’m sure you’ll remember this as well. It’s when you try to help your toddler with something, and they pull back and they say, “Me do it. I do it.” And honestly, it’s really adorable when you’re two. That independence, that little spark, we laugh and we love it because it’s really cute.
But something funny happens. A lot of us never fully outgrow that instinct, especially high performers, especially leaders. We get really good at solving problems, handling pressure, carrying the responsibility that we have. And it works for a while. But then there’s a ceiling to how long any of us can carry everything on our own before it starts to cost us something.
There’s a story in the Bible that I keep coming back to as well. And it’s the story of Jacob wrestling with God. It’s one of those passages that actually stopped me the first time I really sat with it, because it’s not a comfortable, tidy little fun story. It’s quite the opposite. Jacob literally wrestles through the night with an angel of the Lord. It’s a real struggle and it’s exhausting. And when it’s over, Jacob walks away changed. Not perfect, but different. He was marked by the experience itself.
What’s interesting is that even Jordan Peterson, not someone you would exactly peg as a Sunday school teacher, recently wrote a book about wrestling with God, because that tension, that spiritual struggle, seems to be something a lot of us go through, whether we have a name for it or not.
And I think life does something similar to us. It wrestles with us through hard seasons, through loss, through pressure, and it just won’t quit. And sometimes I think the wrestling itself is doing something. It’s not punishing us. It’s truly shaping us.
You know, another story to really kind of land that is Michelangelo. He was once asked how he knew what the statue of David looked like inside that enormous block of marble. And what he said was so simple and so profound. He said, “I just removed everything that isn’t David.” The masterpiece was already there. His job was to chip away everything that didn’t belong.
And I’ve been thinking about that a lot lately, because sometimes I wonder if that’s exactly what life is doing to us in our hardest seasons. Removing things that don’t belong. Our ego. Our need to control. Our stubborn belief that if we can just manage everything tightly enough, it will all work out fine. Our exhausting insistence that we have to do this alone.
And I want to ask you something personal, if I may. When was the last time you prayed? Not out of habit. Not before a meal or at a church service. Just you, alone and honest, maybe even a little desperate. When was the last time you got quiet enough to say something like, “God, I don’t actually know what I’m doing here. I’m so tired and I need help.”
For a lot of people, that’s been a really long time. And I can’t help but think about Jesus saying this in Matthew chapter 11. Jesus says, “Come to me, all who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.” I’ve read that verse a hundred-plus times, and it hits me completely different when you’re exhausted for years and nobody ever gave you permission to put things down. You don’t have to keep carrying it all. You actually really don’t.
You know, I want to share a morning that I had with Rob. Well, it wasn’t that recent. It was a couple of years ago. And it was something I’ll just never forget. Rob has a lot of responsibility, a lot of people he’s responsible for, and a lot going on in business for him. He was getting ready to go to work. It was pretty early in the morning, and I could feel this tension coming off of him. I knew something was wrong. So I asked him what was going on. And he responded with, “Just a lot. Stress and pressure. It’s just all of it. You know, Kari, the same thing.”
And I said something pretty simple to him. I said, “Well, why don’t you just pray about it?” He turned around and he stopped and he looked at me. And what he said next kind of really broke my heart. He said, “God doesn’t have time for my problems, Kari. He’s got bigger things to worry about.”
I think about how many people really believe that. That God has only reserved the big dramatic moments in our life, the crises and the disasters, and that the everyday grinding weight of life is somehow beneath His notice. But that’s not how any real relationships work, is it? You don’t just show up for the big things with the people you love.
And God’s invitation isn’t just for your worst moments. It’s for all of them. The big things and the small things. The stuff that feels important enough to bring and the stuff you’re embarrassed to admit is weighing on you.
So I asked Rob that day. I said, “Rob, don’t you believe that God cares about your stress and all the little things and the big things that you’re dealing with right now? Give it to Him. Give it to Him on your way to work and see what happens.” And so he did. And guess what? His day got a whole lot better.
You know, in John 15, Jesus says something that I find myself coming back to again and again. He says, “I am the vine. You are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit.” Connection matters. That’s what He’s saying here. When a branch gets cut from the vine, it doesn’t die dramatically. It slowly dries out. And I think a lot of people are living disconnected and they don’t even have language for why everything feels a little dry.
But guess what? The flip side of that is also true. When we reconnect, things start to shift. Peace that felt impossibly out of reach starts to return. Clarity comes back, and a sense of direction starts to emerge. Not because life suddenly gets easier, but because you’re not carrying it alone anymore.
I want to be clear about something. This episode isn’t about convincing you of anything. I’m not trying to get you to believe anything that you’re not ready for, or some specific belief system. I’m extending an invitation for you today to consider the possibility that the peace that you’ve been looking for, the thing that you’ve been striving for, the thing that achieving more hasn’t quite delivered, that staying busy hasn’t fixed, that drink that isn’t fulfilling you, might actually be found in reconnecting with the one who made you.
And if you’re still sitting with some gray areas right now that feel muddy or confusing, sometimes the most powerful first step is getting clarity on where you actually are. That’s exactly why I created the Gray Area Insights Experience. It includes a behavioral scan and two deep sessions where we walk through all four of those areas: body, being, balance, and business. Because when one of those areas starts to align, everything else shifts too. You can find the link in the show notes.
And if something stirred in you during this episode, even something small, even something you’re not sure what to do with, please don’t ignore that. Sometimes the wrestling we do in our hardest seasons isn’t a sign that something is wrong. It’s the beginning of something being made right.
Because when you stop carrying it all alone, when you finally reconnect to the one who made you, that’s when you discover that there really is life beyond the gray.
Next week, Rob and I are back together having a conversation that I think a lot of couples need to hear. What happens when you look across the table and realize you love this person, sure, but you’re not actually liking them anymore. We’re talking about what it really looks like when a marriage feels out of sync, and more importantly, how you can start rebuilding it. One more gray area that we get to look at together. I hope you’ll be there, and I’ll see you there.
Be sure to share this episode, like, and follow the show so you don’t miss any future episodes. I’m really glad that you stuck all the way with me to the end, and I really hope this episode blessed you immensely. Have a great day.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Six
How to Navigate Social Life Without Drinking (And Still Feel Like You Belong)
One of the biggest fears people have when they start questioning their drinking actually has nothing to do with alcohol. It sounds more like this. “What am I supposed to do at events? What will people think if I’m not drinking? How do I fit in?” And I’m talking about business dinners and networking events, golf outings, weddings, dinner parties, you name it. And somewhere along the way, alcohol became the default ticket into our social life. So when someone starts thinking about stepping away from it, it can feel like stepping away from belonging.
So today we’re talking about something I call the social trap. Because once you see it clearly, you realize something powerful. The trap isn’t alcohol. The trap is believing you need alcohol in order to belong.
Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. I’m your host, Kari Schwear. And if you’re new here, this podcast is for people who look successful on the outside but are starting to question something on the inside. And sometimes those gray areas show up in our drinking, sometimes in stress, habits, relationships, and purpose. And the goal is always clarity here, because when you see the gray areas clearly, you can decide what to do with them, because they are choices.
Today, one of the biggest fears is the social side of it. I hear it all of the time. “Kari, how am I going to do this?” It’s not “Can I quit drinking?” but “What happens to my social life if I do? Will I still fit in? Will I be awkward? Will people judge me?”
And here’s what’s so important: our need to belong isn’t just emotional. It’s biological. For most of human history, belonging to a tribe meant survival. If you were pushed out of the group, you were exposed to danger. Our brains developed deep wiring that constantly scans the room. “Do I fit in here? Am I accepted? Am I safe?” That instinct still lives inside us today. So standing out socially can feel very uncomfortable, even when nothing is actually wrong.
Alcohol has become one of the easiest ways that people signal belonging. I mean, think about it. Drinks at networking events. Drinks to celebrate. Drinks to relax. Drinks to connect. So when someone starts questioning alcohol, the deepest fear becomes, “Will I still belong if I do this differently?” And that fear is incredibly normal, but it’s also where the trap begins.
I want to share, when I first quit drinking, oh my gosh, I felt like I had this visible sign on my forehead and it said, “She’s not drinking.” I was convinced that everyone in the room could see it. I thought people were watching me and judging me and wondering, “What’s wrong with her?” I felt like I had to explain myself before anyone even asked.
But something interesting happened. Almost nobody even noticed. The first few times I went to events without drinking, I braced myself for questions. And then it was crickets. People were too busy worrying about themselves to worry about what I was drinking.
And when you really start paying attention, you see something kind of funny. Half the people at the table aren’t drinking much either. Someone is nursing the same glass of wine for two hours. Someone else switched to water halfway through dinner. And somebody else ordered a drink just to have a drink in their hand so they look like they fit in. But somehow we’ve convinced ourselves that everyone else is drinking like it’s the Olympics. When in reality, most people are just trying to look normal, just like we are.
Once you realize that, something shifts. The real power isn’t in the drink. The real power is in the decision. When you own the decision, you stop feeling like you’re missing out. You start feeling like you’re choosing something better.
Here’s the other part that nobody tells you. The people who care the most about you not drinking are often the same ones that feel uncomfortable with their own drinking. That’s not your problem to solve. Your job is to take care of you. I promise you this: if they’re thinking about your drinking, they’re more concerned about their own drinking.
Now here’s the most important step that you can take before socializing without having a drink in your hand. Decide before you ever leave the house. Not when the waiter comes over. Not when someone offers you a drink. But before. When you make that decision ahead of time, you remove the gray area. There’s no negotiating with yourself and no bargaining. If you listened to the previous episode, we talked about moderation and how exhausting that negotiating with yourself can be. Your brain relaxes because you’ve already made the decision upfront and it’s been made. So all you get to do now is go enjoy yourself.
Because the problem with moderation is it requires this constant decision-making. Clarity requires just one: the decision. So every time you try to moderate, your brain does exhausting mental math. “Should I have one? Two? Should I stop? When will I stop?” It’s exhausting. But when you decide ahead of time, before you leave the house, “I’m not drinking tonight,” that mental energy drops to zero. You’re not wondering. You’re not debating. You’re just showing up as a person who decided to be there.
And here’s what makes this even more powerful. When you remove the option, you remove the stress. Your brain stops scanning for escape routes and you can actually be present for the people that you’re going to be around.
I want you to think about a business trip that maybe you’ve gone on recently. If you’re someone who travels for work, you probably notice something: the nights that you decide ahead of time, “I’m going to work out at the hotel gym,” you usually do it. And the nights you say, “You know what, I’ll see how I feel,” you usually don’t. I am guilty of this, right? Same principle goes here. Decide before you arrive, and then honor that decision. You’re not depriving yourself. You’re protecting yourself. You’re protecting yourself from the mental gymnastics, from the regret, from waking up at 3 a.m. asking, “Why did I do that again?”
The second thing that helps tremendously is preparation. Elite athletes do this all the time. Think about your favorite golfers. If you’re into golf, they visualize their swing. They visualize where that ball is going to go. Same thing with quarterbacks. They visualize the play before it even happens. They’ve rehearsed it so many times in their head. They know exactly where that ball is going to go, and it often does go there. Unless there’s a player that enters and intercepts it, right? We can’t always control it, but we visualize it ahead of time.
And think about Olympic athletes. They rehearse the race in their minds before even stepping onto the track. Why do they do this? Because the brain responds strongly to rehearsal. So when something feels familiar, it feels safer. Uncertainty creates anxiety, but preparation creates confidence.
So before a social event, take a moment and picture it in your mind. What will the room look like? What might someone offer you? Where will you be? Do you have an idea what the place looks like and how it feels? How will you respond if someone asks, “Why aren’t you drinking tonight?”
What really helps is even calling the restaurant ahead of time to see what non-alcoholic options they have. That really helps a lot. Do they have sparkling water? Do they have non-alcoholic beer? Do they have some fancy mocktails on their menu that you can order? Knowing what you’re going to have ahead of time removes one more decision point, and it’s so helpful.
And I’ll tell you something else that makes me laugh. When I started going to events without drinking, you begin noticing how predictable the night actually is. The first round of drinks arrive and everyone relaxes. The second round shows up and the volume gets a little bit louder. And by the third round, someone is telling the same story that they’ve told the last time you saw them. And if you stay long enough, you realize you can almost predict the entire evening. It’s like a movie that you’ve already watched over and over again. You’re still part of the night. You’re just seeing it with clear eyes now. And honestly, you’re probably going to go, “Yeah, it’s time for me to go home now.”
Now here’s another thing I started doing that really helped. I like to think through my exit strategy ahead of time. Not in a paranoid way, but just knowing, listen, if I want to leave at nine, how will I do that gracefully? Having a plan removes the panic. Preparation isn’t about being rigid. It’s about being ready. So when the moment comes, you’re not scrambling. You’re calm, you’re clear, and you’re confident.
This is a framework I’ve used with my clients that works incredibly well, and I want you to implement this for yourself too, okay? Here it is. It’s four simple steps. Plan, prepare, execute, report.
Let’s talk about step one. Plan the event. Where are you going? Who will be there? What’s the vibe like? What do you want out of the evening? Are you looking to connect? Are you networking? Are you just showing up? Know that in your head. Planning ahead of time gives you a lot of the preparation, which is step number two.
Prepare mentally for how you want to show up. This is where you’re going to visualize. You’re going to picture yourself ordering that drink, whatever it is that you decided on ahead of time. Picture yourself there having great conversations. Picture yourself leaving proud of yourself, right? See it all the way through. How do you feel as you’re walking out the door and you’re proud of yourself for making the best decision? Really see this in your mind’s eye. It helps more than you may realize.
Step three: execute your plan while you’re there. Show up as the person you decided to be. Order what you decided to order. Stay as long as you plan to stay. You don’t have to be perfect, just intentional.
And finally, step number four, this one is important. Report back to yourself on how it went. This is more important than people may realize. So after the event, take just five minutes and reflect. What went well? What felt hard? What surprised you? How do you feel about yourself? Will you make any changes for next time?
Why this matters: your brain learns from reflection. You start noticing things. “The night went pretty smoothly. I was more present. I actually had better conversations.” That reflection builds confidence, and the next event becomes even easier.
I had a client who started doing this for every work dinner. At first, it felt awkward for him, but after three to four dinners, he told me, “You know what? I don’t even think about it anymore. I just show up, I order my sparkling water, and I have a good time.” That’s the goal. It becomes automatic, and it’s no longer an issue.
My mama always said, “When you don’t want to make a big deal about something, you don’t make a big deal about it, and nobody else will either.” Pretty good advice. Thanks, Mama.
Now this framework works because it removes uncertainty. You’re not just winging it. You’re not just hoping for the best. You’re being intentional, and intention beats willpower every single time.
And at some point something bigger happens. You stop seeing yourself as someone who’s trying not to drink. You start seeing yourself as someone who simply doesn’t need alcohol to belong. That’s an identity shift, my friend. And identity is one of the strongest drivers of behavior.
James Clear talks about this in Atomic Habits. The goal isn’t to run a marathon. The goal is to become a runner, because runners run. It’s who they are. Same thing here. The goal isn’t to not drink at this event. The goal is to become someone who doesn’t use alcohol as a social crutch. When that becomes your identity, the behavior follows naturally.
I remember the exact moment this clicked for me. I was at a wedding, maybe six months after I quit drinking. Someone ordered me a champagne for a toast and I didn’t even hesitate. I just said, “I’m good, thanks.” Not defensive. Not apologetic. Not explaining. Just “I’m good.” Because by that point, it wasn’t something I was doing. It was who I was. I wasn’t trying not to drink. I was someone who didn’t drink. And that shift made all the difference.
And here’s how you know the identity shift has happened for you. You stop thinking about it constantly. You stop white-knuckling your way through events. You just show up as yourself, and that version of yourself doesn’t need alcohol to be comfortable.
Okay, let’s take a breath. Now, let’s talk about something people sometimes worry about. What if my social circle changes? Oh my gosh, this is the biggest worry of them all. And yes, occasionally social dynamics will shift. Not in a dramatic way, not always, but sometimes.
Jim Rohn famously said, “You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.” So when you start making healthier choices, it can shine a light on habits and environments that were always there. Some people will support you. Some people will feel very threatened by your new change. And a few might quietly disappear.
But here’s the part that people often overlook. It’s not just about what you might lose. It’s about what you gain. Clarity and energy. Confidence. Deeper relationships with people who appreciate you for who you are, not what you’re drinking.
I’m not going to sugarcoat this. Some friendships might fade. I noticed it for me. Not because you changed, but because the friendship was built on a shared habit, not a real connection. And you know what? That’s okay. And when the habit goes away, there’s not much left. All right, moving on. As another quote that my mom says? “Next!” Move on, okay? I know that can hurt, and it’s okay to grieve that, but it also makes room for something better.
Friendships are built on shared values, not shared vices. I really want to make sure that you heard that. Real friendships are built on shared values, not on shared vices. People who show up for you when life gets hard, not just when the bar is open.
Here’s what I’ve seen with clients. The friends who matter stick around. The ones who were just drinking buddies usually drift away, and that’s okay. And new people show up, people who are also choosing clarity, health, and intentionality. You don’t lose your social life. You upgrade it.
And there’s another powerful thing that begins to happen. You become the example. This is my favorite. If you’re thinking about your drinking, I promise you, somebody else is also. I bet you’re not the only one in your circle thinking about this. There are others. They just haven’t been able to say it out loud yet.
I remember a client telling me about a work dinner that he went to, and he was the only one not drinking wine. And his boss came up to him later and said, “Hey, I noticed that you weren’t drinking. What’s up with that?” And he didn’t make a big deal about it. He said, “You know, I’m just taking a break from alcohol. It just hasn’t been serving me well, and I feel better without it.” You know what his boss said? “Oh my gosh, I’ve been thinking about that too. How’s it going for you? Because I’m wondering how I’m going to go about doing it, what’s been working.”
And they actually had a conversation about it. It was unbelievable. He became the light for his boss that night. And you know what? That’s a beautiful thing. His boss thought he was the only one thinking about it, and here it turns out that he was not the only one thinking about it, that he also wanted to do it, but he didn’t know how.
Sometimes the bravest thing you can do socially is to simply go first. You never know who else in the room is hoping someone will. Your choice gives other people permission, just like my client did for his boss. Permission to question their own habits. Permission to choose differently. And permission to stop pretending everything is fine.
You never know the impact that you’re having on other people, but I promise you this: they’re watching. And for some of them, watching you choose clarity is exactly the permission they needed.
It’s worth mentioning here, the culture around alcohol is changing. I can’t begin to tell you how much has changed in the 10 years since I quit drinking. There were almost no non-alcoholic choices back then. Today, there are literally thousands of brands on the market, entire companies that are built around alcohol-free beverages. Restaurants have mocktail menus galore. Athletic Brewing, Seedlip, Ritual Zero Proof, Gia. There are so many NA options that are actually really good, that taste just like the real thing. Beer especially, they have really mastered non-alcoholic beer. So if you haven’t tried it yet, consider doing it. You’re not stuck with soda water and lime anymore like I was. Or, I’m sorry, O’Doul’s, not a very good NA by the way. There are so many options available to you.
And you know who else is doing this? Athletes and entrepreneurs and executives. They’re openly choosing not to drink. Tom Brady, Serena Williams, Jennifer Lopez. High performers who realized alcohol doesn’t serve their goals. This shift is happening and it’s only growing. I see it year after year.
This matters because it changes the social narrative. It used to be, “You don’t drink? Are you an alcoholic?” Now it’s, “Oh, you’re one of those high-performing wellness people.” I’ll take that, yes please. The stigma is fading. The curiosity is growing.
And here’s what’s interesting. The people who are most inspired by your choice are often the people you least expect. The guy at the gym, the colleague at work, the neighbor you barely know. Your choice creates a ripple effect. I promise you, you’re going to see it, and it’s pretty exciting when you do.
And you know what else happens? People eventually discover for themselves that the relationships that matter don’t require alcohol. The conversations that matter don’t require alcohol. And the connections that matter definitely don’t require alcohol. You remember the conversation. You’re actually present with those conversations, and you’re not performing, you’re connecting. And that is so important. Again, we’re talking about the social belonging. It’s a beautiful thing.
You know, I had a moment at a dinner party about a year after I quit. I was sitting across from someone I’d known for years and we got into this really deep conversation about marriage, our kids, and even faith. The kind of conversation that I would never have had three drinks in. And I remember thinking, “This is what I was missing.” Not the buzz, not the noise, not the drunk dancing. This. Real connection between two people.
The social trap tells you that alcohol creates connection, but what it actually creates is proximity. People standing near each other, talking louder, and feeling looser. That’s not the same as connection. Real connection happens when you’re present. When you’re listening, not performing. When you’re vulnerable, not numbing. When you’re choosing to be there, not just killing time.
And once you experience that, you realize the trap isn’t that you lose your social life. The trap is believing your social life was ever built on alcohol in the first place.
The social trap isn’t really about alcohol. It’s about the belief that we need alcohol in order to belong. But belonging built on alcohol is fragile. Real connection doesn’t require it. And when you choose to honor yourself first, something interesting happens. You stop chasing belonging and you start creating it.
You show up as yourself. Not the version of you that’s trying to fit in. Not the version that’s just performing or numbing. Just you. And you are beautifully made just the way you are. And the people who matter will see that. They’ll respect it. Some will even admire it. And the ones who don’t? They were never really your people anyway.
So if you’re standing at the edge of this decision and wondering, “What will people think about me?” here’s what I want you to know. The right people won’t care. And the ones who do care aren’t your people. You don’t need alcohol to belong. You never did. I promise.
Next week, we’re going to go much deeper, because alcohol is just the surface behavior underneath something deeper. And I’m talking about questions of identity, meaning, and purpose. That feeling many people experience when life looks good, but something still feels slightly off. Not broken, just not fully aligned. And we’re going to talk about what might actually be missing.
If this episode resonated, would you do me a favor? Would you share it with someone who might need to hear it too? And make sure that you follow the show so you don’t miss any future episodes, because there truly is life beyond the gray. I’ll see you next time. Thanks for being here.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Five
The Moderation Trap | Why Cutting Back on Alcohol Feels So Hard
You know, moderation sounds simple until you’re the one who’s trying to do it. Because if you’ve ever tried to drink less, you know it’s not really about the drink. It’s about the conversation that starts happening in your head before the drink even shows up. You walk into dinner and someone says, “Hey, we should probably split a bottle of wine. What do you think?” And in that moment, there’s this tiny pause, like half a second.
But inside that half a second, your brain starts negotiating. Part of you says, “Sure, just go with the flow.” Another part says, “Wait, remember, you said you were cutting back.” And then another voice jumps in and says something like, “Well, one glass won’t hurt.” And just like that, before the appetizers even arrive, you’ve already had three internal negotiations. That’s what we’re talking about today.
Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. My name is Kari, and if you’re new here, I’m really glad that you found this podcast. This space is about honest conversations about the gray areas of life. The ones that look completely normal from the outside but don’t always feel great on the inside. Sometimes those gray areas show up in our health. Sometimes it’s our relationships, and sometimes it’s our purpose or even our faith. But one of the most common places they show up is alcohol.
So today, we’re talking about something almost everyone who drinks has tried at some point. We’re talking about moderation. And more specifically, why moderation becomes such a mental trap for people who already suspect alcohol might be taking up more space in their life than they’d like to admit.
I know for me, this was very true. I tried moderating for years, and I mean years. I tried the two-drink rule. I tried the only-on-the-weekends rule. I tried the wine-only rule. And at one point I convinced myself that wine was somehow different. Like it lived in a separate category, which looking back is kind of funny, because at the time it felt completely logical.
Maybe you’ve done something like that too. You create a rule that feels reasonable. It feels responsible. It feels controlled. But somehow those rules keep shifting. Why? Because you want it. Because we have justifications for it. And that’s what moderation actually turns into. It’s this weird mental spreadsheet that’s running in the background of our head.
You sit down at dinner, and suddenly your brain starts calculating. “Okay, I’ll just have one glass. So technically, I could probably have another. But if I have another, I probably shouldn’t drink tomorrow. But tomorrow’s a networking dinner. But maybe I’ll work out. And then this way it’ll take up the damage that I’m going to do, or it’ll balance it out. It’ll take out the calories that I’m going to have with alcohol. And then I can just work out harder in the morning.” Do you see where this goes? It’s like running this tiny accounting firm inside your head. And the crazy part is, from the outside, everything looks normal. You’re just sitting there with a drink. But internally, your brain is doing tax accounting.
I mean, it’s hilarious when you think about it. And I don’t know about you, but that’s not moderation, my friend. That’s management, and it’s exhausting.
Now here’s the interesting part. There’s actually science behind why this feels so draining. Researchers talk about something called decision fatigue. The idea is pretty simple. The more decisions you make throughout the day, the worse your decision-making becomes later on. And I want you to think about your average day. You’re probably making decisions all day long from the time you wake up. Then you’ve got the work decisions and the financial decisions and the leadership decisions and the family decisions and the health decisions.
So by the time your evening rolls around, your brain has already spent an enormous amount of energy making choices. So when you sit down at dinner and you ask yourself, “Should I drink tonight?” you’re asking a tired brain to make another disciplined decision. And that’s the exact moment that moderation usually falls apart. It’s not because you’re weak. It’s not because something’s wrong with you, but because you’re trying to exercise discipline at the exact moment your brain is most exhausted. I mean, think about that.
No wonder you say yes to the drink and no to your commitment that you’re going to moderate, and then you fall through, right?
So let me paint a picture that might feel familiar to you. You’re out to dinner with friends. Everyone’s relaxed. Everyone’s chilling and conversation is flowing. And then someone orders a bottle of wine and the glasses all get poured. And you told yourself earlier that day, “Tonight, I’m just going to have two.” It’s very clear. It’s very disciplined. Sounds responsible.
And that first glass is easy. The second glass is also fine. But then someone orders the second bottle. And suddenly that rule that you made earlier becomes negotiable. You hear things in your head like, “Well, it’s kind of a special night. I guess I can do it just this once.” And “I’ve been good all week.” And my personal favorite: “I’ll just start fresh again tomorrow.”
And if we’re being honest, almost everyone who’s tried moderation has had that exact conversation with themselves.
And the one that really makes me laugh, though, is the weekend rule. “I’ll only drink on the weekends.” And it sounds great, except somehow Thursday starts feeling like the weekend. And then Sunday brunch gets thrown in and that counts. And then there’s this random Wednesday that sneaks in because it feels like it deserves a celebration. Why not? We’re close enough to Thursday. And suddenly the weekend is four to five days long. I did this myself for years.
And I know so many people who have done the exact same thing. You probably have too. And it’s not because we’re weak. It’s not because of anything that we’re doing wrong, per se. It’s because the rule itself is slippery. It doesn’t hold the weight. It falls apart because our brains are exhausted by the end of the day.
A client of mine recently sent me an article about something called zebra striping. Have you heard of this? Apparently it’s the official name now for alternating drinks. Who knew that there was such a name? It sounds kind of funny, but it makes sense. It’s when you have one glass of wine or an alcoholic beverage and then you have a non-alcoholic beverage or a glass of water or something. You go back and forth. Well, the idea is that it slows things down. And I get it, because it sounds reasonable, right? It does. And I’m all for experimenting to see what works. Maybe you’ve tried this yourself too.
But if we’re being honest, what it usually does is keep you in the game longer. You’re still drinking. You’re just stretching it out. And I will tell you something else. Nothing good happens after 9 or 10 o’clock at night. Just saying. You probably know this to be true.
Moderation isn’t just about the alcohol. It is costing you this mental bandwidth. Think about how many decisions you’re already making every day. If you’re running a business, leading people, managing finances, raising a family, taking care of health, you get it. Your brain is already doing a lot. And at the end of the day, you’re still negotiating with yourself about alcohol. I really want you to let that land for a moment. You’re letting your brain run another meeting about drinking.
And eventually you start realizing something: that this is taking up way more space than it needs to.
There’s another concept researchers talk about called ego depletion. The idea is that self-control works a little bit like a battery. Throughout the day you’re using it. Every time you manage stress, every time you resist temptation, every time you solve a difficult problem, that battery gets a little lower. So by the time evening arrives, you’ve already asked yourself to stick to a rule like, “I’m only having two drinks tonight.” But that same brain that created the rule is also the brain negotiating with that rule. And when that battery is low, that negotiation almost always goes in one direction. Drained. That’s where it goes.
I had a client once who said something that really stuck with me. He said, “Kari, the weirdest part about the drinking isn’t the drinking itself. The weirdest part is about how much I’m actually thinking about my drinking.” He told me he could go an entire work day and never think about the alcohol. But the second five o’clock rolled around, that conversation would start in his head. “Should I? Shouldn’t I? How many? What counts? Should I switch to something non-alcoholic tonight?” It’s a familiar pattern, and our brain loves familiarity.
When he finally took a break from alcohol, and I mean a complete break, the thing that shocked him the most wasn’t the physical changes, although those were amazing too, don’t get me wrong. It was that his brain got quiet.
And that moment changed everything for me too. It wasn’t just about getting better sleep or better energy or having the brain fog lift. The moment was when the negotiation stopped. There was no more math, no more bargaining, no more “just one more.” Just quiet. And that quiet brings a kind of peace that’s hard to describe until you’re able to feel it for yourself. Because when that noise disappears, you suddenly realize how much space it had been taking up inside your head.
And something else happens too. Your confidence comes back. Because every time you tell yourself, “Tonight I’m only having two,” and it becomes three, your brain registers that. And after enough of those moments, you start trusting yourself a little less. Not just with alcohol, with other promises that you make to yourself too. And that’s where shame starts to creep in. It’s not because you did something terrible. It’s because you broke a promise to yourself again.
And when people remove alcohol for a while, one of the first things that returns is self-trust. They realize, “Wait, I can actually follow through with this.” And that changes everything.
So instead of trying to moderate again, I tried something different for myself. I removed alcohol completely. And something interesting happened. Things started to improve. My sleep and my energy, my clarity. But the biggest shift was that internal peace. All the negotiations that I was dealing with inside my head were finally gone. And it felt like I could finally breathe again.
Have you ever driven in fog and then all of a sudden it’s super clear? That’s what it’s like. You give yourself this opportunity to have a different perspective, one that is clear, that you didn’t even know existed.
So let me ask you something honestly. How much mental space does alcohol take up in your life right now? I’m not talking about the drinking. I’m talking about the thinking about the drinking. The planning and the negotiating and the resetting. If that mental space disappeared, what would you do with that energy instead? Think about it. Better sleep? More presence with your family? More focus at work? More confidence in yourself?
Understanding the why here is so important. Because you know what, there’s always a reason for our behavior and why it exists. And if moderating isn’t working for you, it’s worth getting curious. Not judgmental, just curious. Why do I reach for a drink? What am I actually trying to manage? Stress, pressure, disconnection, avoidance? Because the drinking itself is usually just the surface.
This is the actual work that I do with my clients. I created something called the Gray Area Insights Experience. It starts with a behavioral scan that reveals how you’re wired. Then we walk through the results together. And on the second session, we look at the core areas of your life: health, relationships, purpose, your personal alignment. And then we identify where those gray areas are really coming from. Because once you understand the deeper drivers behind your behavior, everything begins to shift. If you’re curious about how it works or anything about it, I’m going to link it in the show notes for you and we can discuss it if you’d like.
I want to say this very clearly: moderation is exhausting. So sometimes it’s easier to make the decision once. And if moderation hasn’t been working for you, it’s not because you’re doing it wrong. It’s because moderation for gray area drinkers often becomes a full-time job. And it’s already hard enough because life is demanding already.
There is a different way forward. You don’t have to keep negotiating. You don’t have to keep restarting every Monday or after the holiday or whenever it is, because there will always be an event. There always will be something that pops up: a dinner, a celebration, a holiday, a vacation. And when you decide upfront that you want something different for your life and you’re willing to look at moderation differently, the mental gymnastics begin to disappear.
And sometimes the easiest decision is the one that you only have to make once. For me, that was back in 2016 when I decided that drinking was no longer going to be a part of my life. And I’m not saying that you have to make that same decision for yourself. I want you to make the decision that is best for you. But if you’ve been trying to moderate and it hasn’t been working, maybe this episode really landed for you. And I sure hope that it did, because it can be overwhelming and take up more mental space than it needs to in your life.
Next week, we’re talking about something that worries a lot of people when they start questioning alcohol. So if this episode resonated with you, be sure to tune in next week, because we are talking about the social trap: the business dinners and the networking events and the golf outings. Situations where drinking feels like it’s expected. How do you navigate those environments without alcohol and still feel like you belong? That’s what we’re going to talk about next week.
Until then, remember, there truly is life beyond the gray. And when you let go of the negotiation, you may discover a kind of peace you didn’t even realize you were missing. Thanks for being here, and I’ll see you next week.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Four (with Rob)
When One Partner Changes and the Other Doesn’t | How to Save Your Marriage After 50
Kari: Imagine being married for over 30 years and you hear from your partner, “I don’t want to be married anymore.” Imagine what that might feel like. Well, in today’s episode, Rob and I are going to be sharing that exact story with you, and why it’s so hard when one partner wants to make some changes and the other one isn’t quite ready yet.
Kari: Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. I am so excited that you are here, because today I have a very special guest joining me, my husband Rob. And we are going to be sharing our story. It’s not the first time that we shared it. However, it is the first time on our own podcast. And Rob will be joining me for future episodes. So I hope that you will enjoy this one. And more importantly, I hope that this really helps those that need to hear the situation that we were in, because I don’t think it’s that uncommon. I think it’s more common than we’d like to admit.
And I’ve said from day one on episode one that we will be having hard conversations here, and that’s exactly what this conversation will be today. And maybe you’re already thinking about your own relationship or your marriage, where maybe you’re not attracted to them anymore. Maybe things have changed. Maybe, like us, you are married for decades and things evolve.
And maybe you’re at that place right now. So I want to really dive in. We’re going to share our truth and tell you what happened and how it happened, because I know we’re not the only ones. And again, the goal of this episode today is to show you what happens when two people aren’t on the same page, and more importantly, what you can do about it, because that is the goal here. We are big fans of marriage and we want to see people stay together.
So for context, I guess I’ll start. I quit drinking in 2016. It wasn’t for a couple years until I started my business in 2018. And by 2019, Rob had just turned 50 and we were going this way pretty rapidly. I had started my own business. I’m super excited about where I was, and we weren’t on the same page. I felt as though I was doing this and he was down here, and not that I was better than him or elevated, but I felt like this huge disconnect was happening. This affected all areas of our marriage, our intimacy, our communication, how we related to one another, and I just wasn’t in a good place.
The bigger part of that was I feel like our identities were on different pages as well. Here we are, empty nesters. Both of our children have moved out of the house years prior. One was already married, or almost married. I should say, no, yeah, he was already married. And things change. Dynamics change, especially in a long-term relationship.
So that’s where I was at emotionally, super excited about my business, gung-ho, left a six-figure job. And I want to give him the opportunity to share where you were during that time.
Rob: It was a normal year for me. Kids were gone. We had sat down and had the conversation about, you know, life’s going to change. We’re not going to be the same people. We’re going to have to get to know each other again because the kids are no longer the sole focal point of our lives.
Kari: Can I just interrupt for one second?
Rob: Sure.
Kari: The context of that was back in 2014-ish? Something like that. Before I quit drinking, we had that conversation.
Rob: So I’m thinking everything’s going great, right? She decides to quit drinking. I’m all supportive of it because, quite honestly, we did have conversations about some excess, how I felt it was too much. I didn’t want to see her, you know, become like some other people that I cared about in my life. And so I was excited for it. So, you know, it was just a place where I was just still doing what I was doing. I was working every day. I was being the supportive husband. I was supporting my wife to quit her six-figure job and go ahead and just start her own business and say, “Here we go.”
So I think I’m doing everything I’m supposed to do. And quite clearly, all I did was have my head down in the minutia of everyday living and not everyday growing or building our relationship or our marriage. I think that about sums it up.
Kari: Yeah. Yeah. And at the time I felt very unsupported and unseen by him, which is somewhat hilarious when I say that out loud, and you’ll know why here in a minute.
One thing that I think is the biggest issue here was I had expectations of him just wanting to give up alcohol the same as me, him to be on the same page as me in regards to self-development and working on bigger goals, and he wasn’t there. The attraction shifted. Both of us had gained some weight right after I quit drinking, believe it or not. It was a very interesting time. And I just feel like internally we were on these two different pages.
And the bigger part here that I really want to share, which really stinks to say it out loud, but again, I want to share this because I think it’s going to resonate, is that I was secretly judging him. It’s sad but true. I was thinking about, “I can’t believe that he’s not wanting to do these changes,” and “Look at him making poor choices,” and “How come he’s not coming along with me?” and “Why isn’t he journaling in the morning?” All these sorts of things are going inside my head. So as this resentment is growing in silence, he’s feeling certain things as well. And I think you already said some of those things about one of them, though. You didn’t mention turning 50.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, I was at a point in my life where, again, ever since I’ve been a child, birthdays never meant a lot to me. My birthday never meant a lot to me. But for whatever reason, when I hit my 50th, I was like, “Wow, I’m half of what I’m thinking I might be on this planet.” So that brings a lot of questions. Why am I here? Have I done my job? Am I being the best version of myself that I could be? Or am I just a guy that goes to work every day, comes home, sits on the couch, and watches TV? What does that look like? Yeah, I go to the gym. Yeah, I do all that stuff. But what defines me? Who am I? Why am I here? Is this my purpose?
So those types of questions were going through my head. I think a lot of people at that age start asking themselves that question, because for a lot of us, our work does define us. Our family does define us. However, if you want to grow and expand, it really doesn’t define you. It’s not your life’s work. It’s not what you were sent here to do, right?
So that’s part of the journey that I was secretly on, not articulating that to Kari. And there’s a couple of words that you should hear over and over and over again that are common: change, communication. We weren’t talking. We were not sharing goals, expectations. That wasn’t happening. And we thought, and quite honestly, I thought everything was fine. I really did. I thought everything was fine. Because I’m a “glass is half full” kind of guy. That’s the way I live my life. I’ve always been like that.
If you guys ever seen the movie Silver Linings Playbook, right? There’s a silver lining to every situation that God puts you in. So for me, I’m just like, “We’re going to get through this,” because in my heart, in my mind, in my soul, we’re a unit. It’s Rob and Kari, or Kari and Rob. It’s not just Rob. It’s not just Kari.
But Kari was in a place where it was like Kari’s going this way and Rob’s going this way. And there’s truth to that. However, for me, it was like a bump in the road of growth and maturity.
Kari: Because again, we’re not the same people that we were when we met.
Rob: That’s right.
Kari: Right. We’re not.
Rob: That’s right.
Kari: So that’s very common of long-term marriages, especially because you’re not the same person that you were when you got married. I mean, we were married very young, 20 and 22. And at this point, we’re on our 30th year of marriage when this all came to a head. And I’ll say, Rob was in a serious gray area with multiple places: work, his health, obviously the marriage. His drinking was never really a problem at all. He wasn’t even a gray area drinker. He was very much a take-it-or-leave-it social drinker, unlike me. But there were all these gray areas and it just came to a head.
And honestly, during that time, I was in a gray area obviously with the marriage as well. And working on my self-confidence, because I’m trying to understand, like, how could this be happening? You know, how could we be going in this direction? And it’s so common, and this is why we’re having a tough conversation today and sharing this with you.
So let’s get to the climax of this story, because I ended up going to a retreat in Guatemala. It was a really awesome experience that I got to go on. And I came back from that retreat in the fall of 2019 when I said to Rob, “I don’t want to be married anymore.”
Even though I said those words and they stung hard, I didn’t want a divorce. I just didn’t want that marriage any longer. The people that we were during that timeframe wasn’t working. And I think he knew that deep down, but because his head was buried, it hit him in a different way. And how was that for you when I came home?
Rob: Yeah, so I’ll put a pin in there really quick. Like history, my mind, my life, you know, through my adolescence, through teenage years, even into when we were married, I could tell you three stories about guys thinking everything’s great and their wife comes home and says, “I have to go find myself.” And then they get a divorce. And I’m like, when she told me that, “I’m that guy. How can this be happening to me? This is ridiculous.”
So I was extremely resentful. I was extremely angry. I was not happy and I was hurt, because I’m like, after all we’ve been through together and what we’ve built, that’s all you have to say? Yes. And I’m like, wow.
Yes, so it was very, very difficult. Very difficult for me.
Kari: Yeah, it was a very, very hard time. And again, I didn’t want a divorce. I just didn’t want that version of us at that time.
Rob: And let’s put a pin in that for one second, because the key to that statement is it was never articulated like that. If it was presented to me like, “Hey, we need to make a change,” not like, “I don’t want to be married anymore.” So what was said and then what was heard, right? It, again, the communication was just not truthful and honest and truly where either one of us were coming from in our heart for each other.
Kari: So go ahead.
Rob: Yeah.
Kari: And that was the thing. We were never incompatible. Matter of fact, we’re very compatible. Scary compatible. So it was that we were misreading each other’s intentions and expectations. The expectations is a big piece of this.
And while this was very, very, very difficult, the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do was to tell my husband how I was truly feeling. And I didn’t hold back. I let it all out. I figured, well, so I threw a bomb at him, might as well throw it all. So we shared a lot of the hurt, a lot of the pain on both sides, the expectations on both sides, and it escalated to a point where we weren’t sure what the future was going to look like. But there was always this deep love there, no matter what, and a deep respect for one another as human beings. And our faith. That’s one thing I will say for sure is that we both have a strong belief in God, and we believe that when you’re married, you do everything you can to stay married. And again, I didn’t want a divorce at all. I just wanted a different version of us.
So the big turning point in all that was we had to find new language to communicate. And right around that time is when I was introduced to my now colleague partners who we do the Intellect Scan together. It’s their company and I was one of the very first coaches to be introduced to this technology and trained on it. And they said back at that time, “Why don’t you both get scanned? We’ll use this technology and we’ll overlay your scans and we’ll show you where your compatibility is.” And I was like, “Sounds like a great idea.” And I have to tell you…
Rob: She’s saying it sounds like a great idea. And I’m like, “Okay, great. Another evaluation. I’ve done this 85 times with 85 different ones. They’re going to tell me the same thing.” Boy, was I wrong. Boy, was I wrong.
Kari: And that’s just it. This is not a personality test. It’s so much more than that. It’s so much more than that. It’s looking at the person in a 3D dimensional way and looking at different traits, motivating traits and behavioral traits, which a lot of tests do look at. But one of the most important ones is cognitive traits and understanding how all of those make up a person and understanding how and why they behave the way that they do, what motivates them, where they’re placing their attention.
And when we have all this information, we can really guide somebody and better understand them. So we said yes to it. And I will tell you that this one opportunity that we had truly was a game changer. We learned things about each other that I had no idea about. Now at this point, I’m married to this guy for 30 years. I’d known him for 32 years up to that point. And there were things about him that I was unsure about. And it was like pulling back a curtain and saying, “Oh my gosh, how did I never see this?” It’s almost like once you see it, you can’t unsee it. It’s always been there and I never had language for it.
And so one of those big revelations for me and him was that his lens in which he views the world and how he sees things is through stability, and being the harmonizer, and being the shock absorber for everybody else, and holding it all together, and being the worker bee, and taking care of all this stuff. Like the steady Eddie guy, right? This big rock.
And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I always said he was my rock, but I never had language for all the other things.” And the reason why he took everything so hard is because he thought he was supporting me. And I’m thinking I’m not being supported, which is ironic. So by the time we got through that… And what did you learn about me that you were like, “Whoa, that was eye-opening”?
Rob: A lot. A lot. But I think for me, the biggest impact out of us reviewing that together was watching the light bulb go off for her to understand me. Honestly.
Kari: That’s true.
Rob: I’m like, “Yep, that’s the person.” She did. It really did a great job peeling back the layers of that onion. And the light bulb, you could just see it, because she was exploring all this stuff. She was understanding it. And I think, again, the heck with what I learned. It was my awareness to what she was learning to help better our relationship and understand me.
And again, there’s a lot of things that I’ve known about my wife that this process really brought out, but I really knew it. But again, her attention to all things aesthetic is like off the charts, okay? The perfectionist, right? But she’s also, there’s nothing that she cannot do. Nothing. No matter what you put in front of her, she’s going to figure it out. But again, I think for my soul, when I saw that, it was literally like a light bulb went off and she had this aura around her. And I’m like, “Wow. Yeah, this is impactful.”
Kari: And I think the thing that was incredible was the empathy that we both had for each other drastically increased, because now we have language to put around how we were feeling and what was missing, and having this new language to create between us that we were able to communicate and share with each other what we needed.
So one of the things that we say in our world at the Intellect Scan is, “That’s the old version of us, and now we get to build the new version of us.” And truly that was the bigger picture here, the more exciting picture, because now we’re on the same page. We had to go through that muck. We had to go through that tough time. We had to experience it in order to be sitting here today to share it with you, and to do the work that we do when I work with couples, so I can help them see this communication in a different way and have the language to put with it so you can understand your partner.
Because when you are married for a long time, 30 years, 20 years, 40 years, whatever, not only does the lifestyle change and the dynamics change and the careers change, you’re not the same person that you were 10 years ago. We’re not the same people we were 10, 15 years ago, thank goodness, right? We keep evolving and growing. That’s the goal here, is for us to become a better version of ourselves every single year. We want to keep getting better at that, to be in a place where you can do that together.
The biggest piece that I want to make sure that I’m saying here is, as badly as I wanted him to come alongside me with quitting drinking, which by the way, we left that part out, he did make the decision in 2019, that same year at the very tail end, he chose to end his relationship with alcohol. Why did you do that, by the way? Because it was not for me. Matter of fact, I said, “Please don’t do it for me.”
Rob: It didn’t. I made a statement when I was 50 that I wanted to get in the best shape of my life. I didn’t do it. I did me, right? And that’s truly, at that time, the path that I was on was, “Right, well, you do you. You do your thing. I’m going to support you 100%, but I’m doing me. And I’m going to do what I want to do.”
I’ve asked your permission. “Are you okay if I have a beer every once in a while?”
Kari: And I said yes, by the way.
Rob: She said yes. So again, the communication was wrong. She should have said, “Yeah, that was going to bother me.”
Kari: It was.
Rob: But to wrap up where we were going with that, I just did my research. And I found out, and I will say the statement and I stand behind it 100%: there is nothing good about alcohol. Period. Period. Don’t let anybody kid you. The glass of wine BS, the this, the that. It’s no good. It is no good. It is killing your body. It’s 100% sugar. Okay. Sugar is the root. It’s the root of all evil, right? And if you’re really on a health journey like I started to get on, to be the best version as I age so I’m going to have a good life, it just was the right decision for me at the time, and it fit our situation.
Kari: He said, “I want to be in the best version of myself when I turned 50.” And I said, “Well, why are you waiting till 50?” “Well, that seems like the best year.” “Okay, great.” So 50 comes. He did nothing. Matter of fact, that’s when he was at his heaviest and the worst in his spirit and his soul. And so part of this jolt, if you will, really helped him see, like, “Oh my gosh, I need to make some changes, and I now want to do it for myself.” And so he made that decision.
And it was another reason why we then were able to really join forces. Because even though he asked me when I quit drinking three years prior, “Hey, are you okay if I continue to drink?” my answer was yes, because I didn’t want to tell him no. He’s a grown man. He can do what he wants. He didn’t have a problem with alcohol. But secretly, I was resenting it. I was not happy about it. I never told him.
So shame on me. This is what happens when you keep quiet, when you’re not truthful with your partner and yourself. The resentment grows and it grows big and it grows deep and long, and it becomes a massive problem. And that’s what happened. It came to a head.
So I want to make sure that I say this, and then we’re going to move on to some questions that you can think about for yourself with your relationship. And that is knowing that you can’t force your partner to make a change. I am asked this repeatedly. Whether it’s people sending me messages privately on LinkedIn or Facebook, whatever, or pulling me on the side if I know them, “Hey, you know, my wife is drinking a lot. I really want her to make some changes. Can you help?”
I said, “I can talk with her, but here’s the thing. Unless she or he is willing to make those changes, it’s not going to go anywhere.”
You have to go through the stages of change. The transtheoretical model of change is a great model to look at, and we’ll talk about that in a future episode. But until someone is ready themselves, it’s very difficult to make that change, because it’s all tied to how you think about yourself, your identity, which we covered that in the last episode.
So when we have this frame of what we believe about ourselves, the stories and the belief systems and our thoughts, and we take all of that and we see how we are through that lens, and back then, “I’m just a drinker. I drink. I’m a wine connoisseur. I’m a wine snob. I know everything there is to know about wine.” That’s who I believed I was. So to say, “Hey, you can’t drink anymore,” if he was like, “Hey, yo, you can’t drink anymore,” which he did at one point, I’m thinking he’s attacking me, right?
So this is why it becomes a very personal problem. And until that person is ready, it’s very difficult. So how do you support your spouse during those times? Let’s talk about some of those hard questions. I don’t want us just to tell our story and not be useful to you.
So one of the biggest questions is, what am I expecting from my spouse that I have never clearly said out loud? What have you expected from your spouse that you haven’t said out loud?
Okay, so some examples, and this is how I felt with Rob, some of these. “I expect you to quit drinking because I did. I expect you to get in shape. I expect you to be more ambitious. I expect you to support me emotionally. I expect you to lead spiritually.” These are all some really common ones that I hear. And then, have you actually said that? Or are you silently grading your partner? If I’m being honest, I said and did all those things myself. And no, I never told him until I came home from Guatemala. So that is a good question to be asking if you are in that.
Kari: And Rob, you are going to ask question number two.
Rob: Yeah, so if you are a man in this situation, you may ask yourself, what pressure am I carrying that she doesn’t see? What am I not saying because I think I should handle it?
So again, in our society, the man carries the weight of the world on his shoulders for his family, right? And he’s not going to share that with anybody because that’s weak. Well, that’s not necessarily the truth. That’s not really the roots of a good marriage. You should be able to share anything with your spouse, who is also your best friend, and be able to communicate that and articulate that in a way that they understand what you’re saying. But that’s hard to do. It’s hard to do because you don’t necessarily want to, because you may look weak.
And you know, a lot of people withdraw because they feel overwhelmed, inadequate, behind, or unsure of the next move. So do you feel like that?
Of course. It’s part of… I like to say yes, because it’s part of challenging yourself to grow. If you’re feeling like that, it’s an invitation to get better and grow. And there’s a way to do it.
Kari: Here’s question number three. And this again is one that I experienced. It’s not comfortable, but we’re here to have uncomfortable conversations. The question you can ask is, are you still attracted to the person your spouse is becoming? Are you attracted to that spouse?
And I’m not talking just physically, although that’s hugely important, because let’s face it, you know, you’re married. You want to have some intimacy with your partner, hopefully. And if you’re not physically attracted, that makes it very difficult. But besides on that side of the fence, I’m also talking about emotionally and energetically and spiritually.
And then flip this. Flip the question. Would you be attracted to the version of you?
Rob: And that’s where it starts. And again, I have to say, if you look at yourself in the mirror and you’re good, you’re good. You’re good. This is not about, you know, physical. It’s really about mental. We may be okay with what’s on the outside, but we’re really struggling with something on the inside.
Kari: Yeah. That’s a big, big piece of this that I think we in our society don’t like to talk about.
Rob: Yeah. We’ll say more of the physical stuff because it’s honestly, it’s easier.
Kari: It truly is.
So gaps don’t close by remaining silent. You have to be willing to do this with conversation.
Let’s talk about the conversation that you are avoiding. What conversation is that? Truly. What truth are you afraid to say to them? And what are you scared will happen if you do say it? Because listen, most couples don’t fall apart because of conflict. They fall apart because they avoid it. And that’s the truth.
Another really great way to approach that is, there’s something that I want to share with you. Is now a good time for you to be able to receive that? And ask for permission. You always want to ask for permission before you start in on a deep conversation. You want to set that tone.
All right, let’s talk about a couple areas that you can start to improve on. But I really want you just to focus on one that you know is a massive issue right now in your relationship. Is it that you have a disconnect with your health and your body? Is it your faith? Is it the communication? Is that the main problem? Usually that is. Does it have something to do with finances? Is it as simple as date nights that you’re not having, those times together? Does it have anything to do with you guys working out together, or your physical connection in that way?
Because when you can have those conversations and you can begin to talk about those shared small wins together, you’re going to be able to rebuild that connection.
And really, this is all about you. Your voice and how you feel is up to you. You have full agency over how you want to approach this with your spouse. And when you’re open and honest, it’s going to go well. And when you’re closed off, it’s not going to be so great.
Being married in your 50s is more than maintenance at times. It should be that we are starting to finally chill and really enjoy the fruits of our labor for all these decades that we’ve been working and getting ready for retirement. And it is a great decade, and it’s a way to get recalibrated to one another and get prepared for what’s ahead. But if you don’t recalibrate together, you’re doing it apart. And that’s just an honest statement. So I encourage you to lean in.
I also wanted to share that if you were interested in learning more about the Intellect Scan and a service that I offer called the His, Hers, and Ours, which is exactly what Rob and I went through back in 2020 to really save our marriage and help us communicate and understand each other, is exactly what I offer to my clients now. I will put a link in the show notes. You can visit my website and see more about that. Honestly, book a call and we’ll talk and we’ll see if it’s a good fit for you and your spouse.
And I promise you, if you do it, it will be one of the most eye-opening, unbelievable experiences that you will ever have. It’s not therapy. We’re truly looking at facts, and we’re understanding language and how you two can communicate, and looking at the diversity, the intellectual diversity of the two of you, and how we can intertwine that to make you stronger, to create a new us, a new version of you and your spouse. It’s an incredible thing.
Rob, I want to sum all this up, this whole episode, together by asking you a question. If you could tell that version of yourself back then one thing, what would it be?
Rob: Be curious. Ask more questions. Be willing to grow.
Kari: Yeah, I like that. I like that. Especially the curiosity part, because again, if I was on a different path of growth at that time…
Rob: And my wife came home and said, “You know, I’m really not happy with our marriage,” and I was more mature in the spot than I’m in now, I would have been like, “Well, tell me about that. It doesn’t resonate with me. I’m not understanding it. Let’s just break that down,” right? Instead of me getting angry and defensive and hurt and all that other stuff.
And I didn’t have the tools in the toolbox to do it at the time. I had them. I knew of them. But I just wasn’t present in that space of growth and continual learning.
Kari: Yes. And I think that’s one thing I know for sure the Intellect Scan did help us with, because now we have languaging that we can help each other grow in a way that we are doing it collaboratively.
So to sum all this up, I want to share that growth doesn’t mean you have to think about separating or growing apart from your partner. It’s a matter of getting clear. The more clear you can be, the faster you can bridge this gap, and you can have the life that you truly want. Because my goal for you is to know that there truly is life beyond the gray.
Thank you so much for joining us. We hope that this episode blessed you and that you will find a way forward. Thank you for listening.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Four (with Rob)
When One Partner Changes and the Other Doesn’t | How to Save Your Marriage After 50
Kari: Imagine being married for over 30 years and you hear from your partner, “I don’t want to be married anymore.” Imagine what that might feel like. Well, in today’s episode, Rob and I are going to be sharing that exact story with you, and why it’s so hard when one partner wants to make some changes and the other one isn’t quite ready yet.
Kari: Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. I am so excited that you are here, because today I have a very special guest joining me, my husband Rob. And we are going to be sharing our story. It’s not the first time that we shared it. However, it is the first time on our own podcast. And Rob will be joining me for future episodes. So I hope that you will enjoy this one. And more importantly, I hope that this really helps those that need to hear the situation that we were in, because I don’t think it’s that uncommon. I think it’s more common than we’d like to admit.
And I’ve said from day one on episode one that we will be having hard conversations here, and that’s exactly what this conversation will be today. And maybe you’re already thinking about your own relationship or your marriage, where maybe you’re not attracted to them anymore. Maybe things have changed. Maybe, like us, you are married for decades and things evolve.
And maybe you’re at that place right now. So I want to really dive in. We’re going to share our truth and tell you what happened and how it happened, because I know we’re not the only ones. And again, the goal of this episode today is to show you what happens when two people aren’t on the same page, and more importantly, what you can do about it, because that is the goal here. We are big fans of marriage and we want to see people stay together.
So for context, I guess I’ll start. I quit drinking in 2016. It wasn’t for a couple years until I started my business in 2018. And by 2019, Rob had just turned 50 and we were going this way pretty rapidly. I had started my own business. I’m super excited about where I was, and we weren’t on the same page. I felt as though I was doing this and he was down here, and not that I was better than him or elevated, but I felt like this huge disconnect was happening. This affected all areas of our marriage, our intimacy, our communication, how we related to one another, and I just wasn’t in a good place.
The bigger part of that was I feel like our identities were on different pages as well. Here we are, empty nesters. Both of our children have moved out of the house years prior. One was already married, or almost married. I should say, no, yeah, he was already married. And things change. Dynamics change, especially in a long-term relationship.
So that’s where I was at emotionally, super excited about my business, gung-ho, left a six-figure job. And I want to give him the opportunity to share where you were during that time.
Rob: It was a normal year for me. Kids were gone. We had sat down and had the conversation about, you know, life’s going to change. We’re not going to be the same people. We’re going to have to get to know each other again because the kids are no longer the sole focal point of our lives.
Kari: Can I just interrupt for one second?
Rob: Sure.
Kari: The context of that was back in 2014-ish? Something like that. Before I quit drinking, we had that conversation.
Rob: So I’m thinking everything’s going great, right? She decides to quit drinking. I’m all supportive of it because, quite honestly, we did have conversations about some excess, how I felt it was too much. I didn’t want to see her, you know, become like some other people that I cared about in my life. And so I was excited for it. So, you know, it was just a place where I was just still doing what I was doing. I was working every day. I was being the supportive husband. I was supporting my wife to quit her six-figure job and go ahead and just start her own business and say, “Here we go.”
So I think I’m doing everything I’m supposed to do. And quite clearly, all I did was have my head down in the minutia of everyday living and not everyday growing or building our relationship or our marriage. I think that about sums it up.
Kari: Yeah. Yeah. And at the time I felt very unsupported and unseen by him, which is somewhat hilarious when I say that out loud, and you’ll know why here in a minute.
One thing that I think is the biggest issue here was I had expectations of him just wanting to give up alcohol the same as me, him to be on the same page as me in regards to self-development and working on bigger goals, and he wasn’t there. The attraction shifted. Both of us had gained some weight right after I quit drinking, believe it or not. It was a very interesting time. And I just feel like internally we were on these two different pages.
And the bigger part here that I really want to share, which really stinks to say it out loud, but again, I want to share this because I think it’s going to resonate, is that I was secretly judging him. It’s sad but true. I was thinking about, “I can’t believe that he’s not wanting to do these changes,” and “Look at him making poor choices,” and “How come he’s not coming along with me?” and “Why isn’t he journaling in the morning?” All these sorts of things are going inside my head. So as this resentment is growing in silence, he’s feeling certain things as well. And I think you already said some of those things about one of them, though. You didn’t mention turning 50.
Rob: Yeah, I mean, I was at a point in my life where, again, ever since I’ve been a child, birthdays never meant a lot to me. My birthday never meant a lot to me. But for whatever reason, when I hit my 50th, I was like, “Wow, I’m half of what I’m thinking I might be on this planet.” So that brings a lot of questions. Why am I here? Have I done my job? Am I being the best version of myself that I could be? Or am I just a guy that goes to work every day, comes home, sits on the couch, and watches TV? What does that look like? Yeah, I go to the gym. Yeah, I do all that stuff. But what defines me? Who am I? Why am I here? Is this my purpose?
So those types of questions were going through my head. I think a lot of people at that age start asking themselves that question, because for a lot of us, our work does define us. Our family does define us. However, if you want to grow and expand, it really doesn’t define you. It’s not your life’s work. It’s not what you were sent here to do, right?
So that’s part of the journey that I was secretly on, not articulating that to Kari. And there’s a couple of words that you should hear over and over and over again that are common: change, communication. We weren’t talking. We were not sharing goals, expectations. That wasn’t happening. And we thought, and quite honestly, I thought everything was fine. I really did. I thought everything was fine. Because I’m a “glass is half full” kind of guy. That’s the way I live my life. I’ve always been like that.
If you guys ever seen the movie Silver Linings Playbook, right? There’s a silver lining to every situation that God puts you in. So for me, I’m just like, “We’re going to get through this,” because in my heart, in my mind, in my soul, we’re a unit. It’s Rob and Kari, or Kari and Rob. It’s not just Rob. It’s not just Kari.
But Kari was in a place where it was like Kari’s going this way and Rob’s going this way. And there’s truth to that. However, for me, it was like a bump in the road of growth and maturity.
Kari: Because again, we’re not the same people that we were when we met.
Rob: That’s right.
Kari: Right. We’re not.
Rob: That’s right.
Kari: So that’s very common of long-term marriages, especially because you’re not the same person that you were when you got married. I mean, we were married very young, 20 and 22. And at this point, we’re on our 30th year of marriage when this all came to a head. And I’ll say, Rob was in a serious gray area with multiple places: work, his health, obviously the marriage. His drinking was never really a problem at all. He wasn’t even a gray area drinker. He was very much a take-it-or-leave-it social drinker, unlike me. But there were all these gray areas and it just came to a head.
And honestly, during that time, I was in a gray area obviously with the marriage as well. And working on my self-confidence, because I’m trying to understand, like, how could this be happening? You know, how could we be going in this direction? And it’s so common, and this is why we’re having a tough conversation today and sharing this with you.
So let’s get to the climax of this story, because I ended up going to a retreat in Guatemala. It was a really awesome experience that I got to go on. And I came back from that retreat in the fall of 2019 when I said to Rob, “I don’t want to be married anymore.”
Even though I said those words and they stung hard, I didn’t want a divorce. I just didn’t want that marriage any longer. The people that we were during that timeframe wasn’t working. And I think he knew that deep down, but because his head was buried, it hit him in a different way. And how was that for you when I came home?
Rob: Yeah, so I’ll put a pin in there really quick. Like history, my mind, my life, you know, through my adolescence, through teenage years, even into when we were married, I could tell you three stories about guys thinking everything’s great and their wife comes home and says, “I have to go find myself.” And then they get a divorce. And I’m like, when she told me that, “I’m that guy. How can this be happening to me? This is ridiculous.”
So I was extremely resentful. I was extremely angry. I was not happy and I was hurt, because I’m like, after all we’ve been through together and what we’ve built, that’s all you have to say? Yes. And I’m like, wow.
Yes, so it was very, very difficult. Very difficult for me.
Kari: Yeah, it was a very, very hard time. And again, I didn’t want a divorce. I just didn’t want that version of us at that time.
Rob: And let’s put a pin in that for one second, because the key to that statement is it was never articulated like that. If it was presented to me like, “Hey, we need to make a change,” not like, “I don’t want to be married anymore.” So what was said and then what was heard, right? It, again, the communication was just not truthful and honest and truly where either one of us were coming from in our heart for each other.
Kari: So go ahead.
Rob: Yeah.
Kari: And that was the thing. We were never incompatible. Matter of fact, we’re very compatible. Scary compatible. So it was that we were misreading each other’s intentions and expectations. The expectations is a big piece of this.
And while this was very, very, very difficult, the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do was to tell my husband how I was truly feeling. And I didn’t hold back. I let it all out. I figured, well, so I threw a bomb at him, might as well throw it all. So we shared a lot of the hurt, a lot of the pain on both sides, the expectations on both sides, and it escalated to a point where we weren’t sure what the future was going to look like. But there was always this deep love there, no matter what, and a deep respect for one another as human beings. And our faith. That’s one thing I will say for sure is that we both have a strong belief in God, and we believe that when you’re married, you do everything you can to stay married. And again, I didn’t want a divorce at all. I just wanted a different version of us.
So the big turning point in all that was we had to find new language to communicate. And right around that time is when I was introduced to my now colleague partners who we do the Intellect Scan together. It’s their company and I was one of the very first coaches to be introduced to this technology and trained on it. And they said back at that time, “Why don’t you both get scanned? We’ll use this technology and we’ll overlay your scans and we’ll show you where your compatibility is.” And I was like, “Sounds like a great idea.” And I have to tell you…
Rob: She’s saying it sounds like a great idea. And I’m like, “Okay, great. Another evaluation. I’ve done this 85 times with 85 different ones. They’re going to tell me the same thing.” Boy, was I wrong. Boy, was I wrong.
Kari: And that’s just it. This is not a personality test. It’s so much more than that. It’s so much more than that. It’s looking at the person in a 3D dimensional way and looking at different traits, motivating traits and behavioral traits, which a lot of tests do look at. But one of the most important ones is cognitive traits and understanding how all of those make up a person and understanding how and why they behave the way that they do, what motivates them, where they’re placing their attention.
And when we have all this information, we can really guide somebody and better understand them. So we said yes to it. And I will tell you that this one opportunity that we had truly was a game changer. We learned things about each other that I had no idea about. Now at this point, I’m married to this guy for 30 years. I’d known him for 32 years up to that point. And there were things about him that I was unsure about. And it was like pulling back a curtain and saying, “Oh my gosh, how did I never see this?” It’s almost like once you see it, you can’t unsee it. It’s always been there and I never had language for it.
And so one of those big revelations for me and him was that his lens in which he views the world and how he sees things is through stability, and being the harmonizer, and being the shock absorber for everybody else, and holding it all together, and being the worker bee, and taking care of all this stuff. Like the steady Eddie guy, right? This big rock.
And I was like, “Oh my gosh, I always said he was my rock, but I never had language for all the other things.” And the reason why he took everything so hard is because he thought he was supporting me. And I’m thinking I’m not being supported, which is ironic. So by the time we got through that… And what did you learn about me that you were like, “Whoa, that was eye-opening”?
Rob: A lot. A lot. But I think for me, the biggest impact out of us reviewing that together was watching the light bulb go off for her to understand me. Honestly.
Kari: That’s true.
Rob: I’m like, “Yep, that’s the person.” She did. It really did a great job peeling back the layers of that onion. And the light bulb, you could just see it, because she was exploring all this stuff. She was understanding it. And I think, again, the heck with what I learned. It was my awareness to what she was learning to help better our relationship and understand me.
And again, there’s a lot of things that I’ve known about my wife that this process really brought out, but I really knew it. But again, her attention to all things aesthetic is like off the charts, okay? The perfectionist, right? But she’s also, there’s nothing that she cannot do. Nothing. No matter what you put in front of her, she’s going to figure it out. But again, I think for my soul, when I saw that, it was literally like a light bulb went off and she had this aura around her. And I’m like, “Wow. Yeah, this is impactful.”
Kari: And I think the thing that was incredible was the empathy that we both had for each other drastically increased, because now we have language to put around how we were feeling and what was missing, and having this new language to create between us that we were able to communicate and share with each other what we needed.
So one of the things that we say in our world at the Intellect Scan is, “That’s the old version of us, and now we get to build the new version of us.” And truly that was the bigger picture here, the more exciting picture, because now we’re on the same page. We had to go through that muck. We had to go through that tough time. We had to experience it in order to be sitting here today to share it with you, and to do the work that we do when I work with couples, so I can help them see this communication in a different way and have the language to put with it so you can understand your partner.
Because when you are married for a long time, 30 years, 20 years, 40 years, whatever, not only does the lifestyle change and the dynamics change and the careers change, you’re not the same person that you were 10 years ago. We’re not the same people we were 10, 15 years ago, thank goodness, right? We keep evolving and growing. That’s the goal here, is for us to become a better version of ourselves every single year. We want to keep getting better at that, to be in a place where you can do that together.
The biggest piece that I want to make sure that I’m saying here is, as badly as I wanted him to come alongside me with quitting drinking, which by the way, we left that part out, he did make the decision in 2019, that same year at the very tail end, he chose to end his relationship with alcohol. Why did you do that, by the way? Because it was not for me. Matter of fact, I said, “Please don’t do it for me.”
Rob: It didn’t. I made a statement when I was 50 that I wanted to get in the best shape of my life. I didn’t do it. I did me, right? And that’s truly, at that time, the path that I was on was, “Right, well, you do you. You do your thing. I’m going to support you 100%, but I’m doing me. And I’m going to do what I want to do.”
I’ve asked your permission. “Are you okay if I have a beer every once in a while?”
Kari: And I said yes, by the way.
Rob: She said yes. So again, the communication was wrong. She should have said, “Yeah, that was going to bother me.”
Kari: It was.
Rob: But to wrap up where we were going with that, I just did my research. And I found out, and I will say the statement and I stand behind it 100%: there is nothing good about alcohol. Period. Period. Don’t let anybody kid you. The glass of wine BS, the this, the that. It’s no good. It is no good. It is killing your body. It’s 100% sugar. Okay. Sugar is the root. It’s the root of all evil, right? And if you’re really on a health journey like I started to get on, to be the best version as I age so I’m going to have a good life, it just was the right decision for me at the time, and it fit our situation.
Kari: He said, “I want to be in the best version of myself when I turned 50.” And I said, “Well, why are you waiting till 50?” “Well, that seems like the best year.” “Okay, great.” So 50 comes. He did nothing. Matter of fact, that’s when he was at his heaviest and the worst in his spirit and his soul. And so part of this jolt, if you will, really helped him see, like, “Oh my gosh, I need to make some changes, and I now want to do it for myself.” And so he made that decision.
And it was another reason why we then were able to really join forces. Because even though he asked me when I quit drinking three years prior, “Hey, are you okay if I continue to drink?” my answer was yes, because I didn’t want to tell him no. He’s a grown man. He can do what he wants. He didn’t have a problem with alcohol. But secretly, I was resenting it. I was not happy about it. I never told him.
So shame on me. This is what happens when you keep quiet, when you’re not truthful with your partner and yourself. The resentment grows and it grows big and it grows deep and long, and it becomes a massive problem. And that’s what happened. It came to a head.
So I want to make sure that I say this, and then we’re going to move on to some questions that you can think about for yourself with your relationship. And that is knowing that you can’t force your partner to make a change. I am asked this repeatedly. Whether it’s people sending me messages privately on LinkedIn or Facebook, whatever, or pulling me on the side if I know them, “Hey, you know, my wife is drinking a lot. I really want her to make some changes. Can you help?”
I said, “I can talk with her, but here’s the thing. Unless she or he is willing to make those changes, it’s not going to go anywhere.”
You have to go through the stages of change. The transtheoretical model of change is a great model to look at, and we’ll talk about that in a future episode. But until someone is ready themselves, it’s very difficult to make that change, because it’s all tied to how you think about yourself, your identity, which we covered that in the last episode.
So when we have this frame of what we believe about ourselves, the stories and the belief systems and our thoughts, and we take all of that and we see how we are through that lens, and back then, “I’m just a drinker. I drink. I’m a wine connoisseur. I’m a wine snob. I know everything there is to know about wine.” That’s who I believed I was. So to say, “Hey, you can’t drink anymore,” if he was like, “Hey, yo, you can’t drink anymore,” which he did at one point, I’m thinking he’s attacking me, right?
So this is why it becomes a very personal problem. And until that person is ready, it’s very difficult. So how do you support your spouse during those times? Let’s talk about some of those hard questions. I don’t want us just to tell our story and not be useful to you.
So one of the biggest questions is, what am I expecting from my spouse that I have never clearly said out loud? What have you expected from your spouse that you haven’t said out loud?
Okay, so some examples, and this is how I felt with Rob, some of these. “I expect you to quit drinking because I did. I expect you to get in shape. I expect you to be more ambitious. I expect you to support me emotionally. I expect you to lead spiritually.” These are all some really common ones that I hear. And then, have you actually said that? Or are you silently grading your partner? If I’m being honest, I said and did all those things myself. And no, I never told him until I came home from Guatemala. So that is a good question to be asking if you are in that.
Kari: And Rob, you are going to ask question number two.
Rob: Yeah, so if you are a man in this situation, you may ask yourself, what pressure am I carrying that she doesn’t see? What am I not saying because I think I should handle it?
So again, in our society, the man carries the weight of the world on his shoulders for his family, right? And he’s not going to share that with anybody because that’s weak. Well, that’s not necessarily the truth. That’s not really the roots of a good marriage. You should be able to share anything with your spouse, who is also your best friend, and be able to communicate that and articulate that in a way that they understand what you’re saying. But that’s hard to do. It’s hard to do because you don’t necessarily want to, because you may look weak.
And you know, a lot of people withdraw because they feel overwhelmed, inadequate, behind, or unsure of the next move. So do you feel like that?
Of course. It’s part of… I like to say yes, because it’s part of challenging yourself to grow. If you’re feeling like that, it’s an invitation to get better and grow. And there’s a way to do it.
Kari: Here’s question number three. And this again is one that I experienced. It’s not comfortable, but we’re here to have uncomfortable conversations. The question you can ask is, are you still attracted to the person your spouse is becoming? Are you attracted to that spouse?
And I’m not talking just physically, although that’s hugely important, because let’s face it, you know, you’re married. You want to have some intimacy with your partner, hopefully. And if you’re not physically attracted, that makes it very difficult. But besides on that side of the fence, I’m also talking about emotionally and energetically and spiritually.
And then flip this. Flip the question. Would you be attracted to the version of you?
Rob: And that’s where it starts. And again, I have to say, if you look at yourself in the mirror and you’re good, you’re good. You’re good. This is not about, you know, physical. It’s really about mental. We may be okay with what’s on the outside, but we’re really struggling with something on the inside.
Kari: Yeah. That’s a big, big piece of this that I think we in our society don’t like to talk about.
Rob: Yeah. We’ll say more of the physical stuff because it’s honestly, it’s easier.
Kari: It truly is.
So gaps don’t close by remaining silent. You have to be willing to do this with conversation.
Let’s talk about the conversation that you are avoiding. What conversation is that? Truly. What truth are you afraid to say to them? And what are you scared will happen if you do say it? Because listen, most couples don’t fall apart because of conflict. They fall apart because they avoid it. And that’s the truth.
Another really great way to approach that is, there’s something that I want to share with you. Is now a good time for you to be able to receive that? And ask for permission. You always want to ask for permission before you start in on a deep conversation. You want to set that tone.
All right, let’s talk about a couple areas that you can start to improve on. But I really want you just to focus on one that you know is a massive issue right now in your relationship. Is it that you have a disconnect with your health and your body? Is it your faith? Is it the communication? Is that the main problem? Usually that is. Does it have something to do with finances? Is it as simple as date nights that you’re not having, those times together? Does it have anything to do with you guys working out together, or your physical connection in that way?
Because when you can have those conversations and you can begin to talk about those shared small wins together, you’re going to be able to rebuild that connection.
And really, this is all about you. Your voice and how you feel is up to you. You have full agency over how you want to approach this with your spouse. And when you’re open and honest, it’s going to go well. And when you’re closed off, it’s not going to be so great.
Being married in your 50s is more than maintenance at times. It should be that we are starting to finally chill and really enjoy the fruits of our labor for all these decades that we’ve been working and getting ready for retirement. And it is a great decade, and it’s a way to get recalibrated to one another and get prepared for what’s ahead. But if you don’t recalibrate together, you’re doing it apart. And that’s just an honest statement. So I encourage you to lean in.
I also wanted to share that if you were interested in learning more about the Intellect Scan and a service that I offer called the His, Hers, and Ours, which is exactly what Rob and I went through back in 2020 to really save our marriage and help us communicate and understand each other, is exactly what I offer to my clients now. I will put a link in the show notes. You can visit my website and see more about that. Honestly, book a call and we’ll talk and we’ll see if it’s a good fit for you and your spouse.
And I promise you, if you do it, it will be one of the most eye-opening, unbelievable experiences that you will ever have. It’s not therapy. We’re truly looking at facts, and we’re understanding language and how you two can communicate, and looking at the diversity, the intellectual diversity of the two of you, and how we can intertwine that to make you stronger, to create a new us, a new version of you and your spouse. It’s an incredible thing.
Rob, I want to sum all this up, this whole episode, together by asking you a question. If you could tell that version of yourself back then one thing, what would it be?
Rob: Be curious. Ask more questions. Be willing to grow.
Kari: Yeah, I like that. I like that. Especially the curiosity part, because again, if I was on a different path of growth at that time…
Rob: And my wife came home and said, “You know, I’m really not happy with our marriage,” and I was more mature in the spot than I’m in now, I would have been like, “Well, tell me about that. It doesn’t resonate with me. I’m not understanding it. Let’s just break that down,” right? Instead of me getting angry and defensive and hurt and all that other stuff.
And I didn’t have the tools in the toolbox to do it at the time. I had them. I knew of them. But I just wasn’t present in that space of growth and continual learning.
Kari: Yes. And I think that’s one thing I know for sure the Intellect Scan did help us with, because now we have languaging that we can help each other grow in a way that we are doing it collaboratively.
So to sum all this up, I want to share that growth doesn’t mean you have to think about separating or growing apart from your partner. It’s a matter of getting clear. The more clear you can be, the faster you can bridge this gap, and you can have the life that you truly want. Because my goal for you is to know that there truly is life beyond the gray.
Thank you so much for joining us. We hope that this episode blessed you and that you will find a way forward. Thank you for listening.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Three
Why Willpower Isn’t Working (Its an Identity Problem)
If you close your eyes for a second and you think about who you were 10 years ago, can you see that you’re not the same person that you were? I bet you, if you’re honest, your beliefs have changed or shifted. Your priorities may have shifted. Your relationships may have disappeared or created new ones. And maybe your confidence has shifted along the way. But here’s the real question. Who are you becoming? And I’m talking now. Who are you becoming now?
And are your current habits aligned with the future version that you want for yourself? Stay with me on today’s episode, because by the end of this, you will understand how identity, not willpower, drives every behavior in your life, and how to intentionally shift it.
Welcome back to Beyond the Gray. In this episode, we are talking all about identity. And here’s what you’re going to walk away with. Why identity drives every habit that you have. Why changing behavior without changing your identity never sticks. And how you’ve already evolved in your life, even if you don’t see it. And how to consciously step into the next version of yourself today.
Yes, this applies to alcohol, but it also applies to other areas of your life. And I’m talking about your health, your discipline for yourself, your marriage and your relationships, your leadership, your faith, your energy and how you show up. And yes, your retirement years. This is way bigger than wine or alcohol or any habit you’re doing. This is about your story.
I want to share something personal with you. Alcohol wasn’t this huge thing in my younger years. Although I did end up having alcohol poisoning when I was 12 years old. I kid you not, I had 12 shots of Seagram’s 7 on my 12th birthday. And I can’t believe that I didn’t die. It was ridiculous. And God bless my sister. She told my mom that the flu was going around school, and I got away with it. But did I really get away with it? I don’t know.
But I will tell you what it did for me. Having that experience helped me realize that alcohol was something I didn’t really want to be messing with in my younger years. So I didn’t actually start drinking until I was in college, to a point where, you know, like most college kids would drink, right? But it wasn’t until I became a food and beverage manager at a country club that it became a part of my identity.
I was sampling wine. I was the main wine buyer for the club at that time, pairing it with the chef’s specials, talking about wine all the time. And somewhere along the way, I adopted the identity of “I’m a wine girl.” More like “I’m a wine connoisseur” or “a wine snob.” One of the three, they all worked. I even built a lifestyle of decisions around this. We went to Napa and Sonoma Valley for our 25th wedding anniversary. I started a wine club in my neighborhood. We’d have neighborhood tastings. Everything was surrounding my love of wine.
And it all felt so elevated and sophisticated. And honestly, it felt like me. But here’s what I didn’t realize at the time: that this wasn’t just a behavior. This was a self-concept. And I would say, “Well, this is just what I do.” And anytime you say that phrase, “This is just what I do,” you’re describing your identity.
Now here’s the part that matters for you. We all tell ourselves stories about ourselves. Like maybe you’ve said, “I’m not a morning person,” or “I’m really bad at confrontation,” or “I just have a sweet tooth, I love sweets,” or “I just unwind with a drink,” or “I’m not really a gym person,” or “I’m just wired this way.” Whenever we repeat something long enough, your brain builds around it.
This is neurological science. Your brain wires around repetition, and what wires together fires together. And that belief is followed by thoughts and your feelings and actions, or your behavior. And then that gets reinforced and it solidifies this decision that you’ve made about yourself, and therefore it becomes your identity. It’s like this big circle that happens inside of our brain.
And once that identity is locked in, behavior feels automatic. And this is why it’s not just about the alcohol. It’s about when you say, “I’m just not disciplined with my body.” Or “I’m the husband who says, this is just how our marriage is. We only have intimate relations twice a month.” “I’m just a leader that doesn’t have time to work out, right? I don’t have time to go to the gym.” Or the retiree who says, “It’s too late for me to change now,” or “It’s too late for me to change careers. My time is over.” Those are identity statements, and identity drives action.
So let’s pause for just a second here, because I know I’m going pretty deep, and I want to kind of recap what we’ve just talked about. We identified how identity is formed. We saw how repeating the same thing to yourself wires into a belief, and how behaviors become self-concepts, and how that self-concept can feel very permanent. But here’s the good news. It is not.
And I want to talk to you about what you can now do about knowing this, because here’s the thing. You’re not the same person that you were 10 years ago, right? That’s proof that identity is not fixed. And when you think about 10 years ago, and like really picture it here for a moment. Where were you living? What were you worrying about back then? What mattered to you? And are those the exact same concerns that you have today? I bet you no. You’ve evolved, and you didn’t even realize that you were doing it along the way.
Now let’s fast forward 10 years. You’re in your 60s or 70s, or maybe you’re in your 50s by this point. Maybe you’re even retired. What does that version of you look like? How does that person move? How does he think and show up and lead? How is he sleeping and treating his body? And are your current habits right now building this man, or sabotaging him? That’s the question that I really want you to ask yourself.
And I know when you think about changing, it can feel a little daunting. It can almost be a little scary. And change isn’t scary because you’re weak or something’s wrong with you. It’s scary because you’re shedding this identity that’s been such a part of you.
I’ll never forget working with one of my very favorite clients. And he would tell me all the time, “I’m just a really anxious person. I’ve always been anxious.” And I said, “Starting today, we’re not using that language anymore. That’s done. No more are you saying that you’re anxious. You’re no longer that person. We’re going to adopt that you are a confident person.” And yes, of course we’re going to have worries as a human being. That’s just how we’re made. But when we adopt the identity upfront and we believe it, it becomes a part of us.
And the other reason why people have a problem with this upfront, though, is because identity can actually feel safe. Because you’ve been telling yourself this story for so long and you believe it, and it actually becomes an excuse. It becomes part of the victim mentality. “Well, I’ve always been this way.” That’s limiting. You don’t want to have a limiting mindset. You want to have an expansive mindset.
So when I stopped drinking, I wasn’t just removing the wine. I literally had to get really honest with myself and ask, “Who am I without this?” And if you heard episode two, I talked about that. I was so worried that my life would be over because I didn’t have wine in it. What? That’s like crazy. But that’s the uncomfortable part that most people avoid, because they don’t want that uncomfortable feeling, like, “How am I going to do my life without this?”
Because what happens if you don’t actually like that new version of yourself? Like, what if it’s awkward? Or if you outgrow certain people? That’s a huge concern for a lot of people, like the people that you hang out with now. So if you decide to quit drinking, does that mean that you’ve outgrown the people that you’re currently with? Maybe. And what happens when you’ve got to set boundaries? So all these future-thinking things of worry, my goodness.
No wonder people are afraid to make a shift, because it requires courage. But so does stagnation. And here’s what I want to share here. It’s not what you give up. It’s what you gain. The only thing is, you can’t see it. You don’t see it in the moment because you’re in this current bubble of who you are right now. But what you don’t see on the other side of that is this incredible human that has expanded into this version that you didn’t even know existed.
And that’s why the Decide Method is so powerful, because it’s not behavior first. It’s all about identity first. And let me just do a recap. If you’re unfamiliar with the Decide Method, it’s my own methodology that was created, God-inspired. I will say God-inspired, years ago. And it starts with having a desire to make a change.
It’s an acronym, by the way. So the first D is desire. You have to have something inside of you that says, “This is not enough. I need to make a change. I want to make a change.” And then the E is exploring your why. Why is this actually something that’s important to you? What’s driving you? Because once you explore your why, you have this foundation that you can build off of.
And then the C is having commitment to yourself. We talked about that in the last episode. It’s not motivation, it’s commitment. And then the I in Decide, yes, we’ve been talking about it this whole episode. It’s about the identity shift. We have to be willing to do this pivot. We have to be willing to buy into the future version of ourselves that we’re trying to get to, especially if you don’t like some things that you’re doing in your life right now.
The second D is daily habits. Once we have that identity shift, we have to build the right habits around this new identity. And then we have to execute with effort every single day, which is the last E. And all that creates the version of you that you actually desire and strive to be.
So when you think about this 10-year version of yourself, you don’t have to wait to feel different. You decide. You decide by speaking powerful words and declaring for yourself now. “I am becoming a man who…” fill in the blank. “I am becoming a man who is successful and fulfilled without having a drink in my life. I am someone who doesn’t need any substances to help me relax and be comfortable with where I’m at. I am someone who is willing to work on my marriage so I can keep this relationship alive.” And I no longer identify as the former version of yourself.
When I decided to quit drinking, I didn’t say that I’m an alcoholic or that I had a serious problem with drinking. I just said, “I’m a non-drinker now.” I used to smoke years ago, and same thing. I don’t say that I’m a former smoker. I’m a non-smoker. I’m a non-drinker. I’m alcohol-free. That’s what I say.
So a lot of what you believe about yourself is coming out of your own mouth, as we discovered. That’s neuroscience. The more we do that, the more we say things and believe it to be true, it becomes true. And if you’re a Bible believer, you know that the Bible talks a lot about this as well, that what we speak over our life becomes reality in our life.
So if identity is the engine to all of this, what does that mean practically for you? It means you don’t attack habits first. You define who you’re becoming. That’s where we start.
As a matter of fact, when I first start working with any client, I have them do two things. I have them start by writing out on paper who they are right now. How would they describe themselves? And then I ask them to write who they wish to be a year or five years from now. Typically, when I’m working with someone one-on-one, I’ll go a year out. But for you, you might want to think about five or ten years out. Who is it that you actually want to be?
And then you have to align this new identity and the habits to coincide with that new version. And this, my friend, applies to everything. To drinking, overeating, overworking, avoiding conflict, working on your marriage, right? Staying silent or being passive or staying comfortable. You’re not changing a habit. You’re updating a self-concept about you. And once that self-concept changes, guess what follows? Your behavior. It’s amazing.
So here’s what I want you to do this week. I would love for you to take me up on this. I want you to write this sentence down. Or if you’re on the treadmill or you’re driving, you could remember it and come back to it. But you start with, “Ten years from now,” or “Five years from now,” whatever time frame you want, “I am a man,” or woman if you’re listening, “who…” Fill in the blank. Finish it and take your time with it. Be very specific here.
And then ask yourself, what does that man do today? Because if there’s a huge discrepancy here, that’s where the change needs to begin. This isn’t with any shame whatsoever. You’re just doing a fact check on yourself, right? It’s with vision. We’re looking ahead.
And I also want to say, if this conversation has hit something deep for you and you’re realizing, “Wow, this isn’t just about alcohol or discipline. It really is about identity,” I would love to explore that with you. I keep all conversations private and direct. And if you want to take it deeper, there’ll be a link in the show notes for you to book a call. It’s just finding that clarity and being willing to see the truth for you in your life.
You are not stuck with the version of you that got you here. You are allowed to evolve. In fact, growth at this stage of life demands it. Time is not slowing down, right? Things are changing rapidly in this world as we know it. And if you’re listening to this and something in you is already shifting, I want you to reach out, or do this assignment, and at least take the time for yourself to really think this through.
In the next episode, we’re going to take a little bit of a turn. I’m going to have my husband Rob with me next week, and we are going to be all about what happens when one partner decides they want to make a change and the other one doesn’t. This is something that I am asked all the time, and Rob and I went through that experience when I decided to quit drinking and he didn’t, and what came up for me during that time. I’ll give you a hint: there was a lot of resentment.
So we’re going to be honest and open with you and we’re going to share our story next week. I hope you’ll be there. I’ll see you then. Thank you for listening. And remember, there’s always a time and a place for you to get out of the gray. And that’s why this is called Beyond the Gray, because that’s where I want to take you. Thank you for listening, and I’ll see you in the next episode.
Beyond the Gray – Episode Two
Why You Keep Going Back to Drinking (And How to Stop) | The Power of the Pause
You ever notice how it’s never really the drink? Like, you’re not standing in your kitchen at 6:30 p.m. thinking, “Wow, I can’t wait to taste this bourbon.” No, what you’re really thinking is, “I’m done. I’m exhausted, and I don’t want to deal with anyone. I don’t want to have to think, and I don’t want to have to feel.” And the drink becomes the fastest way to shut it all down.
That’s what most people don’t understand about gray area drinking. It’s not about the alcohol. It’s about the relief. And if you’ve been trying to fix the drinking without understanding what’s driving it, you’re going to keep ending up in the same place. So today we’re talking about something simple, but it might be the most powerful tool you ever learn. It’s the pause, the moment where you stop and you question the drink.
Welcome back to episode two of Beyond the Gray. And if you’ve already listened to episode one, you already know what we’re doing here. This isn’t a sobriety podcast or a moderation tips podcast. I’m not here to slap labels on you. There’s other programs out there that will do that. This is a podcast for men, and yes, women too, who are living in that space where life looks really good on paper, but something feels off. And drinking has become part of that routine, part of the coping, and the autopilot.
And the reason why I want to talk to you about this today is because I know what it’s like to be stuck in that loop where you keep telling yourself, “Tonight, I’m not drinking.” And then somehow you end up with a drink in your hand and you don’t even know how it happened. It just feels like the decision was made well before you even got home. And so today I want to give you something practical. Not motivational, but something real that you can put into use. Because you don’t need any more shame, you need a better strategy. And that’s what I hope to provide for you. So stick with me all the way to the end and you’ll find out exactly how to do this.
Here’s the one thing that I want you to know: most people think that alcohol is the issue, but alcohol is rarely the actual issue. Alcohol is the solution your brain has been using to deal with something else. And I want to say this carefully because I don’t want to sound like you’re sitting in a therapist chair, but I do want you to hear. Most of your behaviors are not driven by logic. They’re driven by emotion. They’re driven by discomfort, the stress and the pressure and the resentment and the loneliness and the boredom of feeling unseen or feeling unappreciated, feeling like you’ve done everything right and yet you’re still not satisfied.
Your brain doesn’t care about your long-term goals when it’s uncomfortable. Your brain cares about one thing, and that’s relief right now. That’s why this is so hard for high performers, because you can be disciplined in business, you can be disciplined with your schedule, and you can be disciplined with your finances, and still feel completely powerless at 7 p.m. when your nervous system is fried and you’re trying to chill out at home. And that’s exactly when the autopilot starts to kick in.
Let me talk to you a little bit about science, because I know this is important to understand, and it’s not just you. A lot of people blame themselves because they think they’re weak. They think, “What is wrong with me? Why can’t I control this?” As a matter of fact, I’m working with a client that recently started with me, and he has said repeatedly, “I just need to fix my weak mindset.” In which I have said, “We’re not going to use that language anymore,” because every time we do, it actually reinforces having this type of mindset. It’s not the mindset that’s the issue here.
What is actually happening is that your brain is a pattern machine. It constantly is trying to save energy. And the more you repeat a behavior, the more automatic it becomes. There’s a reason people say it’s just a habit, because it literally is a habit. There’s plenty of research out there showing that habit formation takes an average of about 66 days. Not 21, that’s a myth. It’s actually closer to two months of repetition before your brain locks it in as default.
So if you’ve been drinking for 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, your brain has been practicing that pathway thousands of times. The “stress equals drink” pathway is basically a superhighway inside your brain. And that’s why you can easily go from “I’m not drinking tonight, I’m choosing not to drink tonight” to finding out a few hours later that you’ve got a glass in your hand, because your brain is trying to conserve the energy. It’s going with what’s familiar. And familiar feels safe, even when it’s destructive.
That’s why this doesn’t feel like a choice sometimes, because it’s not happening at a conscious level anymore. It’s happening at the habit level, and this nervous system level, and more importantly, at the identity level.
Let me tell you something I did years ago. I remember doing one of those really strict 30-day crazy diets where alcohol wasn’t allowed. It was one of those diets where you’re only allowed 500 calories a day. Yes, I’m not kidding. And honestly, I was doing okay on it. I mean, sure, I was hungry, and I was being good. I wasn’t drinking. I was really proud of myself.
And I remember one night we ended up going to a neighborhood wine club, which ironically I had started a couple of years prior, and I wasn’t drinking. I sat there with my water and I did pretty good. I stayed strong. But the honest truth was, the entire time I kept thinking, “I cannot wait until these 30 days are up and I can get back to my wine.” Not because I actually missed the taste, but because my brain was already living in the future. “When can I have it again? How many more days do I have? How many more weeks do I have?”
And that’s exactly what a lot of people do with Dry January or a 30-day reset or a cleanse. They white-knuckle it. But the whole time, their brain is negotiating. Maybe you’ve been there too.
But here’s the truth. If your brain is counting down until you can drink again, you’re not changing the habit. You’re just delaying it. And I say that with so much compassion, because obviously I did it too, on several occasions. But my friend, that’s not freedom. That’s delayed gratification with loads of resentment, and it almost always ends the same way. Not good.
And this is where it gets interesting, because what I’ve learned, and what behavioral psychology supports, is that most people aren’t reacting to the outside world. They’re reacting to what’s happening inside them. That’s the internal trigger.
You don’t drink because this one or that one is annoying. You drink because of what it’s triggering inside you. You don’t drink because your wife said something sharp at you and you didn’t like it. You drink because of what it stirred up in you. You don’t drink because you had a long day. You drink because your nervous system is overstimulated and you don’t know how to come down.
So if you want to change the habit, we have to start understanding the trigger, because alcohol is often the escape hatch. And here’s what that looks like in real life. You walk in the door and you tell yourself, “I’m fine,” but you’re not fine. You’re tense, you’re irritated, you’re depleted. And then your brain says, “Hey, let’s fix this.” And it reaches for the fastest solution it knows, because it’s worked for a very long time.
There was a time years ago, in my 40s, when I decided to cut back. I was serious about it too. I had had enough of drinking and I just wanted to take a break. I was sick of the cycle every weekend. Drink like way too much and then pay for it the rest of the week. And we were hanging out with a fairly new, older, newer couple that we had become friends with. They were so much fun. They really were. But the guy was such a party guy, like he was that guy, you know who I’m talking about, who just could drink everybody under the table. He never had the off switch and he kept pushing drinks.
And I told him upfront, “Listen, I’m not drinking. I just need to take a couple of days or a week off or a couple of weeks off.” And he said, “Come on, just have one. You know, you have a friend like this, right? Come on, don’t be boring.” And I remember thinking, “I don’t even really want this.” But guess what? I did it anyway. And what’s really crazy is here I am, a 40-plus-year-old grown woman, making decisions that I don’t even want to really make.
So I folded. I folded not because I needed it, because I wanted to not feel uncomfortable. I didn’t want to be the odd one out. I didn’t want to be the person making it awkward for everybody else. So I caved. And in that moment, it taught me something huge: that sometimes we drink not because we actually want the alcohol, but because we don’t want discomfort. And discomfort comes in a lot of forms. Social discomfort, emotional discomfort, identity discomfort, the discomfort of standing alone, and how about the discomfort of saying no?
I’ll give you a client example here too, because this is more common than we’d like to admit. I had a client, I’m going to call him Chase, just for confidentiality reasons. Really great guy. High performer, super successful, loved by everyone he talked to. He wanted to quit drinking more than anything. He knew he felt better without it when he wasn’t drinking. He knew that it was affecting his mood, his sleep, his business, everything, but he kept slipping back.
And it wasn’t because he lacked willpower, no. It was because he was in a marriage that was emotionally draining. His wife drank heavily and she was instigating a lot of it when he got home. The dynamic was complicated on both sides. She had her set of things going on in her life that she was trying to deal with, but when he didn’t drink, she took it personally. And then when he tried to change, she pushed back.
And the irony here, he was drinking to cope with his marriage that he wasn’t happy in. And so he stayed stuck in this loop. The marriage stress turned into the drink, the drink turned into shame, that shame turned into massive resentment, which ended up in, you guessed it, drinking again. And the breakthrough didn’t happen when he tried harder. No, it happened when he finally got honest about what the drinking was doing for him. It was buffering him from the truth. It was keeping him from the truth. That’s why he couldn’t stop. Not because he was weak.
It was because he was avoiding the pain and the discomfort of having the tough conversations that needed to be had with his wife.
So here’s where we go from awareness to action, because we’ve got to know what to do when we’re in these situations. And this is where “Question the Drink” and the concept really matters. By the way, Question the Drink is a movement that I created back in 2019 to really ask and plea with people. It was more of my cry to them. You don’t have to necessarily quit drinking, although I’m an advocate for it as you know, but just to question why you’re drinking. Just to take that pause.
Because most people try to change their drinking at the wrong moment. They make those decisions when they’re calm and when they’re motivated and when they’re inspired. But the real moment of truth, the real moment that it happens, is in the moment that the urge hits. And that urge is almost always tied to discomfort.
So here’s a practice that I want you to try. When you feel the urge to drink, instead of judging yourself, and instead of negotiating, going down that rabbit hole, instead of saying, “I shouldn’t want this,” you pause and you ask a better question. Not “Should I drink?” but “What am I trying to relieve right now?” Because that’s the real question. And when you ask that question, you interrupt the autopilot. You take back control.
Now I want to leave you something tactical. This is one of the best tools I’ve found, and it works because it respects your brain. It’s very simple. When the urge hits, you say, “Not now, in 10 minutes.” That’s it. Not forever. Not “I’m quitting for life.” Not “I’m never drinking again.” Just “Not now, in 10 minutes.” Because your brain can handle 10 minutes.
And what happens is this. Most urges are going to peak and fade like a wave. They don’t last forever. You know this, you’ve gone through this before. You know you can ride this wave. They get intense, yes, but eventually they will pass. And if you can surf the urge or ride the wave, you don’t have to obey it.
So when you pause, here’s what you do. You set a timer for 10 minutes. You drink some water. You go outside. You take some deep, cleansing breaths. You do literally anything that shifts your body. Tony Robbins calls this changing your state of being. When you can literally pick yourself up and change your state of being by moving your body, or listening to music, or going outside, you will literally move yourself into a different state of being. What I call moving from a protective state into an expansive state.
And while you’re taking this break, while you’re waiting that 10 minutes, I want you to ask yourself a very important question. What am I feeling right now? What is it that you’re actually experiencing as a feeling? What’s happening? Is it stress? Is it resentment? Is it loneliness, overwhelm, boredom? And then I want you to ask, after you name it, I want you to ask yourself, “What do I actually need? What do I actually need in this moment?”
Because it’s usually not alcohol. It’s often rest, or space, or connection, or movement like we just talked about, or it’s just internal peace that you’re striving for. And maybe it’s the courage to have a hard conversation, like we just talked about with that client. Find out what that is for you. Take a moment to tune in. Again, you’re giving yourself the pause. You’re giving yourself the moment to question the drink, or question any behavior that you’re doing.
Now this is where I want to teach you something that I use with my clients, because it’s huge. A lot of people fail because they set goals that their nervous system can’t yet handle. They say, “I’m quitting forever,” and their brain panics. It goes into panic mode, like, “What? Forever?” Because you know what? Forever feels like a death. It feels like deprivation. Forever feels like an identity loss. I remember when I quit drinking, I thought I was burying my best friend, wine. I kid you not, it sounds very dramatic, but that’s honestly how I felt.
So you don’t want to think about forever. Instead of setting a goal, I want you to set an intention. Here’s why. Goals are future-based. Intentions are present-based. Goals say, “I’m quitting forever.” Intentions say, “You know what? Today, I’m choosing clarity.”
Today, I’m choosing sleep. Today, I’m choosing myself. Today, I’m choosing leadership. Today, I’m choosing not to drink. Today, I’m choosing to show up for my kids. Today, I’m being present for my wife. Today, I’m going to be the best version of myself that I possibly can be. Today, I’m going to smile at people. That’s powerful, because the brain can handle today. And when you stack enough todays, you build a new identity.
And this ties directly into the Decide Method, which we’ll go over deeper in a later episode. But the short version of the Decide Method is this. Desire is a catalyst of all change. If you have the desire to make the change, you will start that process. Habits are the structure, and effort is a consistency. Identity needs to happen in shift. And when we do all this, we have the commitment to ourselves to do it. And this, my friend, is what high performers understand. Because you don’t build things in one day. You didn’t build your business in one day. You built it with daily decisions. It’s the same thing here.
So here’s what I want you to walk away with today. The next time you feel the urge, I want you to ask these three questions.
Number one: What am I feeling right now? And name it. There’s a great resource that you can just Google. It’s called the Feelings Wheel. There’s multiple different types of feelings out there, but they’re all pretty much the same. You’ll see six core emotions and then several feelings that come off of each of those emotions. When you can name that feeling, it will literally start to loosen its grip. When you can actually see it and you can name it, it very much will help you. So name the feeling. What are you feeling right now?
Number two: What am I trying to escape? Be honest here. What are you trying to run away from, or move away from the discomfort?
Number three: What would actually help me right now? I really want you to think about that. What would actually help you? And it’s not the alcohol, okay? It’s usually the alcohol, but it’s not.
And then I want you to take it one step further. Use that 10-minute rule. Give yourself the space, because space creates choice, and choice creates freedom.
So let me leave you with this. If you’ve been stuck in this cycle, it doesn’t mean that you lack discipline. It means that your brain has been trained to chase relief, and you can retrain it. It starts with one moment, one pause, one decision to stop reacting and start responding.
That’s what it means to question the drink. Not because you’re weak, not because you’re asleep and you’re just waking up. If you’re here listening to this right now, you’re already doing it. I’m really proud of you. Thank you for listening.
In episode three, we’re going to go much deeper, because we’re going to be talking about the identity shift. Who you become when you stop using alcohol as your off switch, and why most people relapse when things start getting better. It’s more common than you may think, and I don’t want that for you.
Now, if you want a tool that will help you get clear on where you’re living in the gray, I created something free called the Gray Area Audit. It takes about 15 minutes, that’s it, and it will help you see where alcohol may be affecting your health, your relationships, your purpose, and your internal alignment. There’s no pressure with this or gimmicks, I promise. It’s just clarity. I’ll link it in the show notes in case you wish to download it.
Be sure to subscribe, and I’ll see you in the next episode.
Beyond the Gray – Episode One
You’re Not an Alcoholic… But You’re Not Fine Either | The Truth About Gray Area Drinking Over 50
Let me guess. You’re not an alcoholic. Not drinking in the morning, and you’re not missing work. You’re not getting any DUIs either, and you’re not falling apart. And yet, you’re also not fine, because if you were, you wouldn’t be here right now. So if you ever told yourself, “I’m not that bad,” but you also know, “This is not who I want to be anymore,” welcome. You’re in the right place.
All right, welcome to episode one of Beyond the Gray. I am so glad that you are here, because I’m going to say something right out of the gate that most people won’t say out loud. Some of the most successful people I’ve worked with are the ones who feel the most confused. You would never know it by looking at them, because their life is not falling apart. It looks so good from the outside, just like mine did when I was in the gray area. And yet there’s something inside that is off. And a lot of times they can’t put their finger on it.
And that is exactly what this podcast is about. This isn’t a sobriety podcast. It’s not AA. It’s not a “Hey, you’re broken” conversation and you have to go to a meeting for the rest of your life. It’s none of those things. This is very much a clarity podcast. It’s about all gray areas, not just gray area drinking. And today I want to talk about the one thing that I think a lot of people need to hear: that you don’t need a rock bottom in your life to admit something is off. You just need honesty.
A lot of times we wait for the bottom to fall out before we decide we’re going to make a change, or that we have to make a change. And I really want you to know that you don’t have to wait for those moments. As a matter of fact, it’s a superpower for you to zone in on your truth right out of the gate. And that’s what I’m hoping to accomplish for you today.
So gray area drinking, since that’s our main gray area today, I want to share: it is not alcoholism. It is not a severe dependency either. It’s that space where you’re still functioning really well, but you’re drinking more than you want to admit. Maybe it is the nightly wine when you get home from work or from a long day. Or maybe it’s the bourbon that you’re liking and it’s a treat for you. Or maybe it’s the weekend blow-off-steam routine that you have with friends and it’s the easy excuse because here comes the weekend.
Maybe it’s the business dinners that turn into three drinks when you set out to only have one. Maybe it’s the golf trips that you’re doing on the weekends or with the guys. Or it could be that vacation mindset that never really ends. It just keeps continuing even when you get home.
And here’s the really interesting part about all this: that most people in the gray area are doing so well in life. Maybe that’s you. You’re leading well. You’re providing for your family. You’re showing up. You’re bringing home the money to pay for everything, and you’re the best provider there is. You’re handling responsibilities well. But you also know that something’s not right. You’re not operating at your absolute best.
You’re not sleeping as well. You’re not as sharp. Your energy isn’t what it used to be. Your body feels heavier than ever. Your motivation is off. Your patience is starting to thin. Your marriage feels, well, flat at best. Not horrible, just not alive with passion like it once was. And the worst part is you can’t put your finger on why.
Why is this happening? So you keep doing what you’ve always done. You keep drinking like it’s normal, because it’s not destroying your life, but it’s also not helping you either. That’s the gray area.
Okay, let’s take a deep breath. Whew, that was a lot. I want to address the elephant in the room now, because something happens after the age of 50. And if you’re listening and you’re 52, 57, 61, 69, whatever age, you already know what I’m talking about here, because it’s like life changes overnight. Your body doesn’t recover the same. Your sleep gets really sensitive. Your stress tolerance changes. Oh my gosh, let’s not even address the hormone shifts that happen. And your metabolism slows down, and alcohol hits so much harder.
It’s not just a drink. It becomes a multiplier. It multiplies fatigue and inflammation and anxiety. And it multiplies weight gain. What’s up with that, by the way? And it multiplies emotional distance with those that we love. And what used to feel like a reward is starting to feel like a problem.
And here’s what most people do instead of addressing it. They negotiate. They negotiate with themselves. Does this sound familiar? “I’ll only drink on the weekends. I’ll only drink socially. I’ll only have two. I’ll do a Dry January.” And then they feel proud until they slide back into the same cycle, and then the shame creeps in because you’re thinking, “How can I run a business but I can’t control this? How can I lead people but I can’t lead myself? Why do I keep going back?” That’s what I want to unpack today.
Because here’s the truth. Most people don’t drink because they love alcohol. Really, I want you to think back to the very first time that you had a drink. You didn’t like it. I mean, think about it. It might have been when you were a teenager, but most likely you didn’t like the taste of it. You tolerated the taste. That’s not why most of us drink as we get older with all this stress and everything in our life.
We drink because we love what alcohol does. It takes the edge off. It does. It works. It quiets the noise. It shuts down the overthinking inside of our head. And the best part, it gives you that temporary off switch that we’re looking for.
And this is where I want to bring in something that really hit me most recently. I was listening to a behavioral expert named Nir Eyal. Maybe you’ve heard of him. He wrote a book called Indistractable, so good. And he said something that stopped me. He said, “Distraction isn’t something that happens to you. It’s something you do.” And then he went on to say, “Most distractions are driven by internal triggers, not external ones.”
Meaning, it’s not your phone, it’s not the world, it’s not your job. It’s the discomfort that you’re trying to escape. And when I heard that, I thought, oh my gosh, that is exactly what gray area drinking is.
Alcohol isn’t the real issue. It’s the tool that you’re using to escape internal discomfort.
One more time for those in the back. It’s the tool that you’re using to escape internal discomfort. The stress, the pressure, the boredom, the loneliness, resentment, emptiness, disconnection. Oh my gosh, alcohol becomes such a great solution for that, but it’s not a healthy one. But it feels like an easy one in the moment.
So if you’ve been thinking, “Why do I keep doing this?” it’s because alcohol is serving a purpose. It’s doing a job. And until you figure out what job it’s doing, you’re going to keep going back.
Let’s talk about science just for a moment. I don’t want to bore you, but I do want to help you stop blaming yourself, okay? Alcohol is a depressant. So when you drink, you feel relaxed. But here’s the part that most people don’t realize. Alcohol doesn’t improve sleep. It sedates you. That’s a huge difference, because while you might fall asleep faster, alcohol disrupts deep sleep and REM sleep.
That means your brain doesn’t fully recover the way that it needs to. Your body doesn’t fully restore itself. And then as the alcohol leaves your system, your nervous system rebounds. And that rebound can increase cortisol. It can spike adrenaline. It can raise your heart rate. And suddenly you’re waking up at night. Your mind is racing. Your anxiety is louder than it was yesterday, and you don’t even know why.
So you wake up feeling like you got hit by a truck again, even if you only had just a couple of drinks. And that is why so many people over 50 start saying, “Why is alcohol affecting me like this now?” Because your body is different. Your nervous system is different now. And what used to feel like relief is now creating the very anxiety that you’re trying to escape. And nobody tells you that.
Now this is where it gets deeper. Hang in there with me. Because if you’re listening, you might be thinking, “Okay, sure, I know. Sleep and cortisol and hormones, got it.” But you know there’s more, because you didn’t come here just for health tips. You came here because you actually feel something.
And most people don’t want to admit this out loud, but I’m going to say it anyway. Some of the most successful men I’ve coached carry such a deep guilt. Not because they’ve done something wrong, but because they’ve built a great life and they still don’t feel happy, and they don’t know why.
And that’s so confusing, because society says, “Hey, look at what you have. You should be grateful.” And you are grateful. But there’s a bigger problem here, is that you’re also disconnected and you don’t know how to fix it. So alcohol becomes the easiest way to not think about it, to not feel it, just to shut everything down and quiet your mind.
And what makes it worse is this. You spent your entire adulthood being the responsible one. Providing. Leading. The one who holds it all together for everyone else in the family. And somewhere along the way, you stopped asking, “What do I really want? What am I doing all this for? What does this next chapter look like?”
And then one day you wake up and you realize you’re in the second half of your life, and then it hits you like a freight train. And that’s when the gray gets louder. That’s when the drinking becomes more frequent, the marriage feels more distant, and that’s when the questions start showing up for you.
So what do you do about it? Maybe you’ve tried moderating, but I want to address moderation, because this is another place people get stuck. Because so many high performers think that moderation sounds like the mature solution, but in reality, moderation is exhausting. Because moderation requires you to be mentally negotiating with yourself all the time. “Should I drink tonight? How much is too much? What time should I stop? What time should I start? Should I drink tomorrow? What if I don’t drink at dinner? What if I do?”
That is constant decision-making right there. And you know what successful people already have too much of? Decision-making. You’re making decisions all day long. Then at night, you’re flipping tired and your brain doesn’t want discipline. Your brain wants relief. So you do what works. You pour the drink. And then the next morning you say, “Damn it, not again.” And then you repeat the cycle.
This is why I don’t talk about alcohol as a moral issue. This is behavioral science, and this is internal triggers. This is the nervous system, and it’s pattern-based.
So here’s what I want you to hear from this first episode. If you take nothing else from this, please take this. If alcohol is still in your life, it’s because it’s solving something. And if you want to change the behavior, you don’t start by fighting the alcohol. You start by asking, “What am I trying to escape?” Because that answer is where your freedom begins.
So let me give you something tangible right now. We’re going to do something together, and I hope that you will do it with me. I want you to rate these four areas of your life, one through ten. Don’t overthink it, just be honest, okay?
The first area we’re going to look at is your body. How’s your health, really? And your energy and your sleep? How about your strength and your weight and recovery and your diet? When you think about your body as a whole, and you’re going to rate yourself one through ten, ten being the best it could possibly be, one being the worst, where would you rate yourself? Got your number?
Okay, good. Let’s move on to the next category, which is being. Being is all about your connection to yourself and to God. Okay, so here’s how I want you to rate it. Think of some of these questions. How’s your internal world? What about your faith, or the lack thereof? Do you have one? How about your internal peace, your connection to God, and your connection to yourself? On a scale of one through ten, ten being the highest and one being the lowest, where do you rate yourself?
Let’s move on to balance. Balance, this area is all about relationships. We’re going to really focus on your significant other. If you don’t have a significant other, then I want you to think about your family and then your friends. How is your marriage? How is your emotional connection to your partner? How about your general relationships? Are you actually present with these relationships? Again, on a scale one to ten, where would you rate yourself?
And lastly, let’s look at your business. And it’s not just owning a business. If you don’t own a business, I want you to think big here on how is your purpose. When you think about your legacy and your drive and your direction, do you feel proud, or are you just tired? Our business world is everything to do with our longevity and our financial world and our purpose. So if we’re thinking about that, again on a scale one through ten, ten being the highest, one being the lowest, where are you?
Now that you have a general idea, I want you to ask yourself, which of those areas feels the most off? And you’re also avoiding it. Because that’s usually where the drinking is doing its job. And if you can identify that, you’ve already started shifting, because clarity changes everything.
Now if you’re wondering why I’m so passionate about all of this, it’s because I’ve lived it. I mentioned that to you earlier, and it’s true. I was that person that looked fine on the outside, but inside I knew something was off. And I spent the last decade working with hundreds of high-performing men and women, helping them get honest and clear, to get their edge back. And not just by quitting drinking. That’s just the surface. But by addressing the life that’s underneath it, because that’s the real work.
And if this episode hit home for you, I want you to know I created something free that I want to give to you. It’s called the Gray Area Audit. It takes only about 15 minutes. It’s private, and it will show you exactly where you’re living in the gray and what it’s costing you. I’ll link it in the show notes for you if you want to go ahead and download it.
So let me leave you with this. You don’t need a rock bottom, and you don’t need to blow up your life. You don’t need to wait for something terrible to happen. And if you’re listening to this, you already know something is off. And the fact that you’re here tells me something: that you’re ready for more. More clarity, more strength, more connection, more purpose, more integrity. And that, my friend, is what Beyond the Gray is about.
In the next episode, we’re going to go deeper into what happens when you try to make a change and you keep sliding back. Because it’s not a willpower issue. It’s a pattern issue. And patterns, they can be interrupted. If this hit home for you today, consider subscribing or follow, and go listen to episode two, because we’re just getting started.
I’m Kari, and this is Beyond the Gray. I’ll see you in the next episode.
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